Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/April 2005 II

That depression some people have above their upper lips

the name is for the little "rut" or "depression" in the skin some people have directly above their upper lips.... -rlwelch 04:44, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

a philtrum-gadfium 05:01, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Last year's exchange rate

How can I find out the exchange rate between British Pounds and US Dollars in September of last year? Thanks.

• This page allows you to look up the exchange rates for any past date you specify. You'll have to look up each day individually. SWAdair | Talk 10:03, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! I have another, related question, but I'm putting it under a new heading.

Fees paid in other currency not worth as much now

Last september I paid Brittish school fees of several thousand pounds from a US bank account. Recently I received a letter saying I'm several hundred pounds short. On a hunch, I looked up conversion rates, and the amount that I'm short is exactly the drop in value of my US dollars from then to now.

Though of course I'll ask them, I'm sure that they'd answer with whatever is most convienient for them, so I though I'd throw it out to the experts here. Question: Is it standard procedure when paying fees for their worth to be that of when they were paid in, or that of when the school cashes the check? (Actually, to be precise, I think I paid with a credit card. Don't know if it makes a difference).

Any help appreciated.

You might want to check your credit card's terms. It could be that the credit card company / bank determines the exchange rate and date on which it is applied. -Rholton 12:07, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

[The following response does not constitute advice and you should not take any action that relies upon it.] Under contract law in England & Wales the consideration (in this case, the fee that you paid) is in the stated currency. The school fees were invoiced in sterling (UK pounds), I assume. You are, therefore, bound to settle in that amount of sterling. If you paid by credit card, the school should have asked its credit card merchant services provider for the payment amount in sterling and the credit card company should then make the appropriate conversion and charge the converted amount to your account. Credit card providers tend to use conversion rates that are significantly more favourable to them than prevailing market rates or tourist rates, but this should only affect the amount of US$ that you paid and have no effect on the amount of sterling that the school received. Credit card providers charge a fee to the recipient of the funds (the 'merchant') that is a percentage of the transaction amount. These rates can be as high as 5% and most merchants absorb them but they can charge them on to the customer (in this case, you) if this was agreed at the time that they agreed to accept the consideration by credit card. They may have covered this in the terms and conditions of the original contract.

Had you paid by check in US$, it would be your responsibility to ensure that the school received the appropriate amount in sterling at the time that the check cleared. The clearing bank will also charge fees consisting of a fixed element and a proprotional element for the conversion. For this reason, many UK organisations require cheques used to settle transactions to be drawn upon a UK-based bank.

I guess that fee arises from the school's desire to recover the credit card company's charges, but this is mere speculation. In your position, I would tell the school that I understood that I had already settled in full and ask for an explanation of the extra charges. [This is not advice]

--Theo (Talk) 12:09, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, Theo's analysis is correct if the transaction was handled as a "sale" (where they charge you a specific amount, and you pay that amount). In my experience, however, schools have running accounts for students, and what you pay is deducted from what you owe. In this case, the school will receive from you the converted value, and again their policy on conversion rates (and fees) would come into play. Of course, all of this is just one non-professional's opinion. -Rholton 14:00, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

[This is not legal advice either - please speak to your lawyer]

The answer is likely to depend on:

• how you paid (cheque/cash/credit card) and when
• how much you were due to pay, in which currency, and when
• most importantly, the terms of the relevant contracts (between you and the school, and you and your bank and/or credit card provider as appropriate)

The discrepancy could arise, for example, from the school seeking to pass on its bank or credit card fees to you, or from the school not converting your dollars into sterling until some time after you had paid or at a different rate than you had expected, or a simple mistake. The best approach, as Theo says, is probably going to be for you to explain that you thought you had already paid in full (a receipt from the school for your payment would be excellent) and to ask for an explanation of the discrepancy. At the least, some explanation of them asking for a further payment some six months later seems to be called for.-- ALoan (Talk) 14:35, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your replies. I've emailed the school and explained my stance, they said they'd get back to me. We'll see what happens... Thanks, --anon.

PROPHET'S BIRTHDAY

I have checked thoroughly ecnough on the above subject in arabic but couldn't find it, which kept me amaze! The question is I want to know how the prophets birthday start, its origin, and according to Islamic Legal scholars, is it permissible or not, a bid'a?

If possible, could you bring the picture of the person who started the maulud nabiy and from whom does the originator pick the birthday from?

Presumably this is the Prophet Muhammad, who was born c. 570. Exact dates of his birth are probably guesses, but made up by a scholar to have a day to mark the event, e.g. Jesus probably wasn't born on 25 December. The date for Muhammad is 20 April 570, or 571. Dunc|☺ 16:58, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Traditional Sunni Islam and Shi'a Islam observe Mawlid Nabi, but Salafis and Wahabis don't, deprecating it as bid'a, or innovation. Which tradition do you want to follow? Zora 10:05, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Chemical reaction type

2NaHCO₃^(s) + 2HCl(aq) --> 2CO₂^(g) + H₂O^(l) + 2NaCl^(aq)

What kind of chemical reaction type is this? Neutrality^talk 13:45, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Well, it looks like an old-fashioned CO₂ fire extinguisher. -- Toytoy 14:09, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Sodium bicarbonate is a peculiar animal; won't the NaHCO₃^(s) dissolve into Na^{+ (aq)} and HCO₃^{− (aq)} anyway; if so, isn't this really:

2Na^{+ (aq)} + HCO₃^{− (aq)} + 2H^{+ (aq)} + Cl^{− (aq)} → 2CO₂^(g) + H₂O^(l) + 2Na^{+ (aq)} + Cl^{− (aq)}

or

HCO₃^{− (aq)} + 2H^{+ (aq)} → 2CO₂^(g) + H₂O^(l)

In any event, I'm not convinced that those reaction types are mutually exclusive - isn't this is redox and neutralization (in fact, isn't neutralization a form of redox? Acids are generally reducing and alkalis are generally oxidising, no?). -- ALoan (Talk) 14:18, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Acid-base reaction (neutralization), but technically it's a redox reaction. Alphax ^τεχ 14:31, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This is not a redox reaction since the starting materials, and products both have the same oxidation state. (Since there are no intermediates, we don't have to worry about whether they change oxidation state.) This is just an acid-base reaction as stated above. ~K 15:02, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

2NaHCO₃^(s) → Na⁺ + HCO₃^- (solvation)

2HCl(aq) means 2H⁺ + 2Cl^- (solvolysis)

HCO₃^- + H⁺ → H₂CO₃ (protonation)

H₂CO₃ + H⁺ → H₃CO₃⁺ (protonation)

→ H₂O + CO₂ + H⁺ (beta-elimination reaction)

As you can see, there is no oxidation or reduction step. If you count the atoms in your equation you see that there is something wrong. The correct equation is:

NaHCO₃ + HCl → CO₂ + H₂O + NaCl

Cacycle 12:37, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Saturday Night Live

There was a skit where either Charlie Sheen or Emilio Estevez was part of a gameshow to identify the type of nerd he and others were. What was the name of the gameshow and and when did it air? PedanticallySpeaking 17:24, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Emilio Estevez played the host of a game show in the 18th episode of the 19th series broadcast April 16 1994. I do not know the nature of the game show parodied in this episode. --Theo (Talk) 17:41, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

From memory, the show was entitled Geek, Dweeb or Spaz. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 17:55, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Confirmation: See [1] Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 17:55, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, folks! An exact reply in under a half hour! PedanticallySpeaking 19:05, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Why is it a spelling "bee"?

We don't really have these in the UK, at least not that I know of. But why are they called spelling bees? --bodnotbod 21:10, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Apparently unknown[2]. The phrase quilting bee is also known in the US, though probably decreasing since not so many people quilt these days. My hunch was the "busy as a bee" notion of industriousness—this makes sense for a quilting bee, and the meaning could have transfered to spelling bees, despite their not being such a productive effort. -- Coneslayer 21:16, 2005 Apr 14 (UTC)

In the U.S., another definition for "bee" is a "gathering of people for a specific purpose". Zzyzx11 | Talk 21:19, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The most often explanation for this definition is that people gather for a specific purpose just like bees in a hive. But scholars think that the word evolved from the English word, bene. [3] Zzyzx11 | Talk 21:26, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks all. Does this mean this question needs a special resolved box put around it? --bodnotbod 03:30, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

I'm guessing that working bee comes from bene as well... you want something like User:Alphax/thread top and User:Alphax/thread bottom? Alphax ^τεχ 06:04, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The word bene or been that's "been" mentioned above is etymologically related to the word boon, as in "profit, advantage." --Gelu Ignisque

Freezing Light

How does a Bose-Einstein condensate slow down, or freeze light passing through it?--Fangz 00:47, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

my university website has a really neat, almost childlike explanation here. even a physics ignorant doofus like myself can understand it =) (bouncy balls included) --Alterego 01:37, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

I have worked with BECs, but not on slow light. I do not know at what level you want or need an answer, so I will provide with a brief 'verbal cartoon' and some keywords for further searching and some links.

Light slows down in (for our purposes) all materials, each material has a index of refraction n>1 that is the factor by which light slows down. The index n can depend on the frequency or polarization of the light. So normal glass may have n=1.5 so light travels at 1/1.5 = 2/3 the speed of light of vacuum when in the glass.

The index n in a BEC is not normally very special, the atomic density is far less than solid materials. But the index at the probe frequency can be affected by additional pump lasers at other frequencies that alter the state of the atoms in the BEC. This pumped BEC can have a very very large index of refraction for the probe beam, which will travel very slowly. This effect is only extreme for a small range of frequencies.

If the pump beam is switched off, then the atoms can actually absorb the probe light, and since the BEC is very orderly (i.e. coherent, in a quantum sense) This absorbtion can be reversed by re-applying the pump lasers and the frozen light pulse can be re-emitted, with little degredation.

The keywords are EIT: Electromagnetically induced transparency, Slow light and Frozen light

One of the actual experiments http://www.europhysicsnews.com/full/26/article1/article1.html

A less technical write-up: http://curie.umd.umich.edu/Phys/classes/p150/archive/goodfor/BEC.htm

You don't need a BEC: http://focus.aps.org/story/v3/st37

You don't need EIT, either: http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/7/7/9/1

-- Answer by Chris Kuklewicz (not a member of wikipedia)

Yet. moink 01:56, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC) :)

Many thanks! Hmm... is this stuff in Wikipedia?--Fangz 11:45, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Light#Refraction

When light passes through a transparent substance, such as air, water or glass, its speed is reduced, and it suffers refraction. The reduction of the speed of light in a denser material can be indicated by the refractive index, n ... ';

Refractive index

At the microscale an electromagnetic wave is slowed in a material because the electric field creates a disturbance in the charges of each atom (primarily the electrons) proportional to the permittivity. This oscillation of charges itself causes the radiation of an electromagnetic wave that is slightly out-of-phase with the original. The sum of the two waves creates a wave with the same frequency but shorter wavelength than the original, leading to a slowing in the wave's travel.

Speed of light#Light-slowing experiments

...certain materials have an exceptionally high refractive index: in particular, the optical density of a Bose-Einstein condensate can be very high. In 1999, a team of scientists led by Lene Hau were able to slow the speed of a light beam to about 17 metres per second, and, in 2001, they were able to momentarily stop a beam.

Bose-Einstein condensate

Bose-Einstein condensates can be made to have an extremely high gradient in the optical densities, resulting in extremely low measured speed of light within it; some condensates have slowed beams of light down to mere meters per second, speeds which can be exceeded by a human on a bicycle.

HTH -- ALoan (Talk) 12:53, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hungarian translation

I just uploaded Image:Azertis.jpg. It's a propaganda poster for the World War II-era Arrow Cross Party in Hungary. What does "azértis" mean? I made the rough guess of "shield", judging from the actual artwork. DO'Иeil 03:01, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

Not sure, but shield links to "Pajzs" on hu.wikipedia. User:Sicboy is in the edit history for that page, and might well be able to help you - he seems to be a Hungarian speaker. Shimgray 12:52, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A dictitionary search in an online dictionary[4] says that "azért" means "therefore". Maybe it could be realted to that. I don't know any Magyar. Jeltz talk 18:46, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The same dictionary defines "is" as "also". So it's more likely the phrase is "azért is". After reading the article and looking at the picture, I'd guess that the general gist of the poster was something like (We were freed from bondage by the Nazis) Therefore we must also (stand beside them in order to preserve our freedom). --CVaneg 20:38, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No, your interpretation is wrong. "Azért is" means "In spite of all" - it is an expression of defiance in a war where the tides are turning against the fascist "Nyilas" (arrow-cross) leadership in Hungary. - Marcika 04:10, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

pancreas necrosis

An acquaintance of mine's cat was diagnosed with pancreatitis with a necrosis effect. I'm curious as to the possible causes and consequences of such an illness. (Currently, the cat eats a little...) David.Monniaux 07:34, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Nearly all pancreatitis will produce some measure of necrosis; obviously the more there is, the worse off the animal is. My experience is limited to dogs and people, but here are some links with information. [5], [6]. My impression is that in animals it can be quite severe (t killed one of my dogs) but the cited link does say that if the cat recovers, there is a "good chance" of a normal life thereafter. - Nunh-huh 07:42, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Lottery statistics

I don't quite understand the statistics of the lottery (I've read the article).

This site gives some of the math. It's aim is to explain why betting on the lottery is stupid. Down in the powerball section, the site shows that the probability of winner the powerball is 80 million to 1. A ticket costs a dollar and the amount you can win in a lump sum is 130 million.

So if the odds were always 80 million to one, and I have the potential to win 130 million, isn't my mean expected utility higher? Why doesn't powerball lose money?

Thanks, --anon

• Perhaps because the odds to win are always the same, but most of the time the payoff is considerably lower than 80 million? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:00, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Calculating the expected utility of most lotteries is problematic, due in part because the jackpot prize is typically shared between everyone who matches the numbers for it. As the jackpot gets larger, more people will buy tickets and thus increase the probability that any winners have to share the prize. So even if the odds are always 80 million to one, the expected utility will fluctuate depending on the number of people buying tickets. --CVaneg 17:30, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

To answer your second question, most lotteries are funded through a percentage of their previous ticket sales. Costs are usually divided up into three general categories, administration, prize payout, and profits. To give a concrete example, in California the precentages are 50% prize payout, 16% administration, and 34% profit (educational funding in this case). So if the Calfornia lottery was to get up to $100 million, that just means that something on the order of $200 million in tickets were sold since the last jackpot was won. (the math is a little fuzzier than this, taking into account non-jackpot prizes, and other factors which I'm sure I'm missing, but you get the idea) --CVaneg 18:02, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

IIRC some people have tried to make money from jackpot lotteries by waiting for the prize to get sufficiently high, then buying huge numbers of tickets. To maximise your profits, you'd not only need to know the odds of winning and the payoffs, but have very good statistical models of how many people would buy each particular combination (so as to predict your winnings, and possibly only purchase tickets with a positive expectation depending on your exact plan). If many people people buy "quick pick" tickets (having their numbers randomly chosen by computer) would make this kind of attack more difficult (in fact, if I were organising the lottery, I'd be tempted to bias the selection of random-pick tickets as to try and counteract the biases in human selection; however, on second thought, this isn't a good idea because if that information became public everyone would buy random-pick tickets to maximise the potential payoff). Intuitively, the fact that lotteries are still run around the world, and most of the prizes appear to be won by amateurs, suggests that trying to beat the odds on a lottery is pretty damn difficult...--Robert Merkel 15:22, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I don't know that it would be all that difficult. Considering how many government run lotteries there are in the world, you probably construct a pretty good model of purchasing behavior relative to jackpot size, as these numbers should be a matter of public record. I would imagine that a significant number of them also keep track of the numbers picked for winning jackpots, so you could get an idea of the distribution of how people pick their numbers (chances are there's a marginal bulge towards the lower end: 1-31 repesenting special days, 1-12 representing special months, also probably a disinclination from picking numbers in sequence). I wouldn't be surprised if these various state run lotteries retain statisticians themselves to analyze these numbers and help maximize profit and calculate payout probabilities. The hard part in beating a lottery would be in coming up with a sizable enough investment (both in capital and labor) to make your models pay off in the long run. Considering the kinds of odds you're dealing with, and the likely razor thin advantage you could gain, you'd probably be better off sticking the money in a bank. Then again, people say the same thing about beating Vegas but that didn't stop someone from forming the MIT Blackjack Team. -- CVaneg 16:46, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

After thinking about it for a bit, the best way to make money off the lottery would probably be to develop such a system, and then sell it to chumps for US$49.99 a pop --CVaneg 17:01, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your replies. Having looked in to it some more, I've discovered: 1) With the number of people buying lottery tickets for the 130 million powerball, you'd be expected to share about 65% of the prize with other winners, netting you only 40-odd million, making the 80 million to one odds rather worse. 2) The typical cash prize for powerball is about 17 million, so not so good. I guess it all makes sense after all. Thanks, --anon.

Linking...?

I wondered if Wikipedia would like to link to my website from this page of information: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Special_effect

Our Film & TV Special Effects company has a website that not only includes our portfolio, but also free behind the scenes articles showing exactly how we make certain items, such as a full size T-rex animatronic.

You can visit our site here: http://www.nimbacreations.com

Thanks for your time.

Guys, "What links here" only counts links within Wikipedia, no external links. You have many SFX images on your website. Maybe you can write something for us and license us some of your Cinefex-styled pictures or illustrations. You can then put the web information on these picture's pages (licensed by http://www.nimbacreations.com, ... blah ... blah ....) -- Toytoy 15:41, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

Kung Fu Master

Can you please tell me who now owns the rights to the "Kung Fu Master" video arcade game, since Data East has gone bankrupt? My name is Daniel Zubiate and my email is zubidan@hotmail.com. Any help would be greatly appreciate. Thanks.

To quote from the Kung Fu Master article, which I have just written:

Data East Corporation, the Japanese parent company of Data East USA, Inc. got into financial difficulties in the early 1990s. In 1994 Data East USA was transferred to Sega in settlement of significant debts. Data East Corporation was declared bankrupt on June 25 2003.

Sega sold the pinball division of Data East USA to Stern Pinball of Melrose Park, Illinois but the fate of the Data East video arcade game licences is unclear. None of the Data East video arcade games are in production.

I will e-mail a copy of this to Daniel. --Theo (Talk) 19:29, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

bc-ad

early in ad after christ i was told monks changed the calendar so that the birth of christ is 1-ad and befor christ the last year in BC is 1-bc.. where can i find more information on this. my hot mail is safe because i have aother main email so my hot email for msn is.. kbeethoven71@hotmail.com and its in the internet anyway

0 (year) is probably a good place to start -- CVaneg 20:09, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Thorpe • 13:39, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Universities

What is the difference between a university and a college ?

See College -- Samw 15:32, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

UK National Anthem

Are the king/queen of UK exempt from singing the UK's national anthem God Save the Queen/King? I didn't see QE2 recite the anthem during Prince Charles wedding. What about other royal members?  =Nichalp (talk · contribs)= 20:51, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)

The monarch never sings the anthem - after all it is their personal anthem really, it just doubles up as a national anthem. The other members of the Royal Family are under strict instructions from Her Majesty always to sing it when played - as it would look bad form if they didn't (imagine what the tabloids could do with it!), jguk 21:12, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It would be illogical for the queen to sing it - she is not "our queen" to herself! In any case I daresay she's heartily sick of the tune after having been on the throne for 53 years -- I was at a Buckingham Palace garden party in 1997 when I heard it played at least four times in two hours in her presence. -- Arwel 21:15, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

What about the royal we? Wouldn't that mean she's "our queen" to herself? ;) Gentgeen 23:14, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

hypo, hyper, isotonic solutions

Can you give me examples of hypotonic, hypertonic and isotonic solutions.

--165.21.154.113sakura1980

Please see: hypotonic, hypertonic and isotonic.

• Hypotonic: You drink too much water. There was an article on the New York Times that talked about the problem of overhydration of slow marathon runners (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/14/health/14water.html). Too little sodium in your blood can kill.
• Isotonic: You drink some sports drinks or saline (medicine).
• Hypertonic: You drink a lot of sea water.

END. -- Toytoy 12:20, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

Examples of solutions:

1. hypotonic: modified Butler's solution for maintenance fluid replacement
2. isotonic: normal saline
3. hypertonic: 3% saline (sometimes used for treatment of hyponatremia without dehydration) alteripse 03:58, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Longest word

What is the longest word in the world. Please give me the meaning of the word and examples of sentences to use the word.

See Longest word in English. -- FP 12:19, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

UK - Prime Ministerial line of succession?

In the US, there is the United States presidential line of succession. Does the UK have something similar for Prime Minister of the United Kingdom?--212.100.250.216 12:38, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No. If the PM resigns without asking for parliament to be dissolved, then the monarch asks someone else to form a goverment; there's no formal process for determining who, but a constitutional convention dictates that it's the leader of the "ruling" party (ie, the one with a governmental majority).

The parties have their own methods for selecting a leader; for fairly recent examples, see John Major, James Callaghan, and Alec Douglas-Home - and, of course, Winston Churchill. All were at some point made PM without a general election, selected by their own party.

There is a post of Deputy Prime Minister, currently John Prescott, but this is not like the US Vice-President in that it is the "next in line" - rather, it's a somewhat ill-defined job the purpose of which is to have someone identifiably senior to stand in if, say, the Prime Minister is on holiday, or indisposed for some reason. Shimgray 13:00, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I should probably add - there often is someone "seen" as the clear successor (for most of the current goverment people have assumed Gordon Brown would become PM if Blair stood down), but this is very much informal and subject to change - Home was very much not the expected candidate, to the surprise of Rab Butler, and John Major was widely seen as a compromise choice. Shimgray 13:03, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

But the choice of Major, at least, followed the process above. Thatcher was succeeded by Major because Major had replaced her as leader, following a leadership election among Conservative MPs. Of course, he was the compromise candidate in that election, but he was the elected leader when he took over. -- GWO

At a theoretical level, lines of succession are important for Heads of State. The UK analog is therefore the monarch, for whom the line of succession is documented to an absurd degree. In practical terms whenever the question of "who's in charge if the President's shot?" comes up, the real question seems to be "who's got the bomb codes", suggesting that it's his role as Commander-in-Chief that's most critical minute-by-minute. In other democracies it's generally a Cabinet (made of of elected representatives) that acts in this role. In any event, the sudden loss of a Prime Minister might put a country's politics in turmoil, but key government operation (not to mention constitutional stability) would continue handily. Sharkford 17:02, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)

The Pentagon has its own line of succession as to who is in charge of the military, a system that has no standing in law and ignores the Presidential Succession Act of 1947. PedanticallySpeaking 14:59, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

Marilyn Monroe

Is it true that Marilyn Monroe had a threesome with Cass Chaplin and someone else? What was her relatoinship with Cass Chaplin and how/ why did it end?

Also, in reading about her, and watching this "made for tv movie" called Blonde it seems that everybody who worked wit her says almost in a bad way that she was too intense or something like that, as though it was an acting problem she had, which doesn't make much sense since she was such a good, successful actress. And no, the article on Marilyn Monroe does not answer any of these questions. Thanks very much.

Joyce Carol Oates describes Marilyn’s ménage-à-trois with Cass Chaplin, Jr. and Eddy Robinson, Jr. in her novel Blonde (New York: Ecco/HarperCollins, 2000 ISBN 006093493X), upon which the TV movie was based. It appears to be a fictional construct. --Theo (Talk) 11:36, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Dressing as a halfling paladin for cheap

I've been cast in a LARP based on Baldur's gate 2 as a halfling paladin, and looking around the web, the character is most likely Mazzy Fentan (a portrait and description). The portraits I've seen only show her face. I don't know what she wears on the rest of her body, and I've never played the computer game (or even Dungeons & Dragons). I don't want to go out and spend lots of money on fake armor, I can't sew, and I don't have huge amounts of time.

So could someone (probably different people for each) please tell me 1) what she wears and 2) how I can fake that, using only clothing in my closet or at my local Goodwill store, Claire's, and the dollar store. moink 00:41, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, the Baldur's Gate series allows you to customise the armour and equipment of all your characters, so I don't think there can be said to be an "official" outfit which is somehow identified with her. Anything warrior-like would probably do, in my opinion. But as the page you linked to says, the starting armour (what she's got when you first meet the character in the game) is simply chainmail. I'm afraid I have no idea how one would fake that, though. -- Vardion 04:43, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! I don't think I'm going to go for chainmail... too heavy and hard to find. I think on the top I may try to emulate a leather cuirass, something like this would be perfect, but this might be easier to achieve. In my closet, for other reasons, I do own two corsets, one black and one white. Do you think I do make something starting from there?

I still have no idea what to wear on the bottom. The many-skirts thing is adequately-halflingish, but not nearly warrior-like enough. moink 07:27, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It might well be possible to make something resembling the second one, although I personally wouldn't have any idea how to go about it. I suspect that the first one would, as you suggest, be quite difficult, unless you could find something similar to modify. As for the rest, I don't really have any suggestions, except to agree that a skirt is probably not the way to go. (From my memory, Mazzy Fentan was decidedly practical in outlook). Sorry I can't be of more assistance. -- Vardion 08:02, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

On a possibly unrelated note, Mazzy's weapon of preference is the short bow (which she has maximum proficiency in). She also uses a short sword, being a paladin and all, but that's only for the rare occasions she has to enter melee. Though the game is such that you could stick full plate mail on Mazzy (and most players therefore undoubtedly will), she's primarily an archer, so leather armour works fine. Definitely no skirt, though. Mazzy is the "have at thee, knave" kind of no-nonsense paladin who wouldn't wear something as flimsy as that, halfling or not. Other trivia: she has a sister named Pala, she used to travel around with her own band of adventurers (all perished at the claws of a Shadow Dragon, I'm afraid) her goddess is Arvoreen [7] (who seems to be female only in the game), and she has a classy British wannabe accent. Oh, and if you meet a dark, handsome human ranger-type named Valygar, convince him that he should be your squire. He'll struggle a bit but give in eventually, if he's true to the role. :-) JRM 09:21, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)

Cheap, comfortable chainmail for an informal LARP can be simulated by taking a wide mesh T-shirt (or a string vest) and spraying it silver. If you have the time and skill it is also possible to knit or crochet a fair approximation from silvery thread (sold in knitting shops). Knit the garment on needles as large as the desired links. Be warned that such armour is no protection against exuberant players with boffer weapons (nor against the missiles of outrageous fortune). --Theo (Talk) 17:56, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The current plan is to go to Goodwill and look for some sort of peasant shirt to wear my corset over, and maybe some brown or green or black capris for the bottom. Perhaps I will also look for a crocheted vest or similar shirt to spray-paint. Fortunately for me (a klutz), the MIT Assassins' guild (which does not yet have an article, but really should; perhaps I will fix that today) doesn't normally use boffer combat systems, relying instead on statistic-based systems, or if they do use boffers, they are just lengths of insulating foam (no wood or PVC core). moink 19:50, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

super nintendo shotgun

Do anyone remeber that game that came with super mario in the first supernintendo videogame? The one you shooted ducks?.. Well it was made to work with a special accesorie a nintendo shotgun. T]That gun amazes me to this day, how the hell did it worked? The gun was able to locate where you pointed it to the screen (of a normal television)!...--Alexandre Van de Sande 02:38, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't have a Nintendo. But you may check light pen for the clues. -- Toytoy 02:45, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)

That's not exactly a new technology at all. The device you're talking about is a light gun; there was one with the Nintendo Entertainment System, called the Zapper, that was either orange or grey, depending on when you purchased it, the game that used it most effectively was Duck Hunt. The gun that was for the Super Nintendo was called the Super Scope. I don't remember what game it went with. Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 02:51, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In many packages, the Nintendo Entertainment System came with Super Mario Bros. and Duck Hunt. Zzyzx11 | Talk 05:10, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

List of countries that recognize State of Palestine

The article on State of Palestine mentions "about two-thirds of the world's countries recognize it today". Where can I find a list of countries that recognize it or have diplomatic relations with it (or a list of countries that don't recognize it or have diplomatic relations with it)? Are there any countries that maintain diplomatic relations with both Palestine and Israel as full and separate countries? -- Brhaspati\^talk/_contribs 03:14, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)

I suspect one problem may be that a lot of countries grant Palestine some kind of recognition, but not in the same way that they recognise France or India; AIUI, most countries have some form of diplomatic involvement with Palestine but (especially in the West) fall short of granting it full recognition. (Look at its UN status for an example of this; priviledged over other observers, but not granted national membership). As such, a lot of numbers may well be quite vague, depending on where the compiler of the list draws the line. In other words, I've looked and I can't find one, so I'm waffling ;-) Shimgray 09:39, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ah, spoke too soon... [8] "The following 94 countries have recognized the State of Palestine..." Shimgray 09:41, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! Since there are approximately 200 countries in the world, should State of Palestine be changed to read "about half of the world's countries" instead of "about two-thirds"? -- Brhaspati\^talk/_contribs 19:00, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)

Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, 94 is closer to 100 than 200. Regardless, rather than dealing in vague fractions, since we have a number I would think that you should just say "About X countries recognize the State of Palestine" of course this discussion would be more appropriate on that page's talk page. --CVaneg 19:35, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I meant that 94 countries of about 200 total countries (or "about half") recognize the State of Palestine. That said, "About 94" is probably better than "About half". -- Brhaspati\^talk/_contribs 00:36, 2005 Apr 19 (UTC)

This is all based on a false premise (as is the article), because there is no "State of Palestine." The Palestinian Authority, the recognised representative of the Palestinian people, doesn't claim to be a state, and whatever the Palestinian National Council purported to do in 1988 has lapsed with the Oslo Accords and the establishment of the PA. Adam 03:02, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well the Palestinian Authority obviously doesn't know that: see the reference above where they refer to "The State of Palestine". DJ Clayworth 19:58, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, the PNA site treats the State of Palestine as continuing to exist, but as not necessarily coinciding with the PNA. - Mustafaa 20:44, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

James Joyce's alternative for "meow"

James Joyce subsititued 'meow' (the noise a cat makes according to most English-speaking people) for something like 'meawmnrmrnmnr'. I read this in a Guardian article but I can't remember which one, and it wasn't on guardian.co.uk... does anybody know what the word is exactly? I couldn't find it at Onomatopoeia btw. Thanks

p.s. forgot to sign afterword 09:51, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Bloom's cat greets him in the morning with the sound 'Mrkgnao!”' but when he fails to feed her immediately she utters the sound 'Mrkrgnao!'. This converation occurs on page 57 of the first edition of Ulysses. --Theo (Talk) 20:03, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

thanks very much Afterword^after-word 13:07, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Darwin and Muller

Charles Darwin corresponded with a German chap called Hermann Muller. I don't think this was Hermann Joseph Muller, since Darwin died in 1882 and Muller was born in 1890. So who was he? Dunc|☺ 19:51, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Oh and not Hermann Müller (the German chancellor) either.Dunc|☺ 20:25, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

He was identified in this publication of a Darwin letter as "Heinrich Muller (1825-1896), the German naturalist". If so, more biog here (I spoke to the site owner, who says he's about to change his version of the page to point to my suggestion below. --Tagishsimon (talk)

However this suggests a Hermann Müller (1829-1883) and provides more info on him ... suggesting that the chromosone.com annotation is incorrect as to the date; and that every second German botanist was called Muller. --Tagishsimon (talk)

And the bottom line is, we have articles on neither of these Mullers. But I'd make a hash of it if I tried to do anything on them tonight. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Yes, coming to think of it, I know a German biologist called Muller! There was also Fritz Mueller who was a contemporary of Darwin. I think that needs to be dabbed. Dunc|☺ 20:37, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hermann Müller dabbed --Tagishsimon (talk)

The Hermann Müller to whom Darwin corresponded apparently wrote the book "Befruchtung der Blumen" ("The Fertilization of Flowers"), and a translation in English was published in 1883, according to Darwin's son Leonard.[9] However, in another passage, Leonard writes:

In November, 1880, he received an account of a flood in Brazil, from which his friend Fritz Müller had barely escaped with his life. My father immediately wrote to Hermann Muller anxiously enquiring whether his brother had lost books, instruments, etc., by this accident, and begging in that case "for the sake of science, so that science should not suffer," to be allowed to help in making good the loss. Fortunately, however, the injury to Fritz Muller's possessions was not so great as was expected, and the incident remains only as a memento, which I trust cannot be otherwise than pleasing to the survivor, of the friendship of the two naturalists.

Which makes it seem as if Leonard is confusing Hermann and Fritz -- or are they related? Or did Leonard just mean "Herr Muller"? The Harvard library catalog lists the full title of the book as "Die befruchtung der blumen durch insekten und die gegenseitigen anpassungen beider. Ein beitrag zur erkenntniss des ursächlichen zusammenhanges in der organischen natur." ("The Fertilization of Flowers by Insects and the..." uh, something.) He cites him extensively in The Descent of Man for his information on bees (he cites a total of six different Müllers in that book, actually!). --Fastfission 04:39, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

General Leclerc - common name?

So, I've just gone and merged two articles on that great French military leader, General Leclerc. Or maybe Philippe Leclerc. Or Jacques-Philippe Leclerc. Or any one of about a thousand variants... it didn't help that he took a pseudonym, but I'm hopelessly confused as to what he was called before, after, or indeed during that period.

The article is currently at Philippe de Hauteclocque, which was one of the two merged articles, and (handily) also the name used on the French wikipedia (and they ought to know!)... I've read through the pages on naming conventions, which all mention that if there was a very common name, it should be used in preference. The thing is, I'm fairly stumped - should he be under some form of Leclerc? I'd never heard of the de Hauteclocque name until now, and it's almost always going to be redirected to.

So, two questions -

1) General reference - What was the guy's name, before and after the war? I vaguely remember that he already had "Leclerc" in his name somewhere, but the details I have here don't bear it out.

2) What would seem the most appropriate title for the page? I'm going to end up with a nice web of redirects and disambiguation anyway, since there's a Napoleonic-era General Leclerc...

Thanks all; it's not desperately important, but it is going to bug me. Shimgray 22:47, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure at what title the article should reside, but Leclerc was born Philippe de Hautecloque and changed his name to Leclerc when joining the Free French forces to spare his family in German-occupied France from repercussions - to the best of my knowledge, he more or less chose a name at random, and he would very probably not have chosen a name that was in some way connected to his family since that would have made the whole renaming issue rather ineffective.

I would guess that Jacques-Philippe Leclerc is the name he is most commonly known as, so probably the article should reside there, and P. de Hautecloque should be a redirect...but the end result is pretty much the same if the redirect points the other way :P -- Ferkelparade π 09:22, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If a person had several names, the article should use the best-known. For example Caesar Augustus (not Gaius Octavius), George Orwell (not Eric Blair), Joseph Stalin (not Ioseb Jughashvili). So if the French general is best-known as Jacques-Philippe Leclerc then that's how the article should be named (I note that Encyclopedia Britannica uses this form). Gdr 18:01, 2005 Apr 19 (UTC)

Thanks all; I've incorporated the EB's name, and moved it to Jacques-Philippe Leclerc. (I hadn't realised he legally changed his name - but it'll be why I remember "Leclerc" being in his formal name). Shimgray 18:07, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

He's generally known as Philippe Leclerc de Hautecloque — I moved the page accordingly. As with many people involved in resistance / Free French activities, he used a pseudonym during the war. Many of those people later kept their pseudonym or added it to their name (see Jacques Chaban-Delmas). Nobody in France ever calls Leclerc "Jacques-Philippe". Actually, he's generally known as "Marshall Leclerc". David.Monniaux 09:46, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Bijective S-box equivalence in cryptography.

This question is concerning Bijective S-boxes as used in cryptography.

Given two random permutations on n, $S_{0}(n)$, and $S_{1}(n)$: Is it nessasary there exists a pair of completely linear transforms $T_{i}$, and $T_{o}$ such that $S_{0}(n)=T_{o}(S_{1}(T_{i}(n)))$?

I understand this is the case for some special forms of bijective sboxes (such as the form used by AES) but is this the case for all bijective sboxes?

If it is not necessary, how does one design a pair of sboxes that are maximally difficult to approximate as linear transformations of each other?

Whatever the answer, is it proven or just assumed and what do I look up to find out more? Thanks --Gmaxwell 23:11, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Cryptography questions are probably best directed at User:Matt Crypto, manager of the WikiProject Cryptography. BTW [[permutation]]s can also be used to code the word in your question with a lot less typing. Mgm|^(talk) 08:02, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)
  • Thanks, but it might be better to direct people to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cryptography and/or Talk:Sbox and/or Talk:Boolean function etc. There's plenty of other crypto people on Wikipedia who are very likely to know lots more than me about many things! — Matt Crypto 15:47, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The short answer is, no, the linear transforms may not necessarily exist. I should try and dig up a paper with the proof, but (handwaving here) composing an S-box with a linear transformation doesn't change the differential or linear properties of the resultant S-box. This means that if you have two S-boxes with different differential (or linear) properties, they cannot be transformed into each other by linear transformation. One reference you might like to look up is:

• Alex Biryukov, Christophe De Cannière, An Braeken, Bart Preneel: A Toolbox for Cryptanalysis: Linear and Affine Equivalence Algorithms. EUROCRYPT 2003: pp33-50.

This paper gives an algorithm that will yield a $T_{i}$, and $T_{o}$ if they exist. I haven't studied the paper, but they also have a technique for detecting if two S-boxes are "almost equivalent" — Matt Crypto 15:47, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• • Thanks, this is exactly what I suspected, but I hadn't been able to find good information on the subject. Thanks for your pointer! --Gmaxwell 16:31, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Mandrake internet config - DSL

I'm trying to access the internet through DSL in Mandrake 10.1. My ISP automatically assigns the IP addr. to my PC. Its and works fine in XP. In Mandrake however, I tried a similar setting but can only access Mandrake related sites, the default bookmarks during installation. So no wikipedia, no google etc. Why is this happening?  =Nichalp (talk · contribs)= 09:48, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

Prolog problem

First off - admission: this is for school. However, it's not a homework problem, its studying for an exam, and it's too late to ask the prof.

If I want to write a prolog program to allocate the correct salaries to staff, such that managers get $40,000, group leaders get $30,000 and averyone else gets $20,000, what's wrong with the following program:

pay(X, 40000) :- manager(X), !.

pay(X, 30000) :- leader(X), !.

pay(_, 20000).

Apparently it might assign someone the wrong salay, but I can't see when. If manager(X) is true, they will get 40000 and nothing else, because of the cut (!). Ditto for leaders, and if it gets all the way down without manager(X) or leader(X) being true, they'll get 20000, no?

Apparently the correct solution is to not use cuts and make the last line

pay(X,20000) :- \+ (manager(X) ; leader(X)).

...and I can see why that would work too, but don't see why the first doesn't.

Thank you for any help.

Hmmm. It's been a while, but IIRC cuts are often regarded as something akin to the GOTO statement in imperative languages - don't use them unless it's for some awful but necessary low-level hack. --Robert Merkel 02:44, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

copyright

I have acquired a set of Illustrated London News from 1916, full of photos and illustrations which would be very useful for many Wikipedia articles. Could someone advise me of their copyright status? Adam 02:58, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, most copyrighted images that are posted on Wikipedia are done under the claim of fair use, so chances are you could get by on that. If not, you'd have to wait until the copyright expired and the work entered the public domain, my mind is a bit fuzzy right now, though, so you'll have to read the article yourself to determine if that has already happend. --CVaneg 03:16, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

These works were published in Britain, I am located in Australia, and Wikipedia is based in the US. Whose copyright law applies? Adam 03:57, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

http://www.gutenberg.org/howto/copyright-howto

Works first published before January 1, 1923 with proper copyright notice entered the public domain no later than 75 years from the date copyright was first secured. Hence, all works whose copyrights were secured before 1923 are now in the public domain, regardless of where they were published.

I think any issue from 1916-1922 is in the PD. -- Toytoy 03:59, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks very much. Adam 05:21, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In the UK copyright subsists until 70 years after the death of the creator. It is most unlikely that photographs published 1916-1922 are out of copyright. See what the UK patent office has to say about it. --Theo (Talk) 08:27, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• What does British copyright law say about "fair use"?
• Given that neither I nor Wikipedia are located in Britain, what applicability does Britisn copyright law have to my placing these images at Wikipedia? Adam 08:37, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Becareful, the life + 70 years rule is possibly not applicable to "works created before 1 January 1996" (see that UK Patent Office page). I don't have time to explain it step by step because copyright laws and copyright litigation, created by the Princess of Darkness himself, are extremely complex and evil (Berne Convention, personal jurisdiction, 1909 Copyright Act, 1978 Copyright Act, Sonny Bonno Act, ... blah ... blah ...). In a nut shell, Project Gutenberg's rules are all you need to know. Works published before January 1, 1923 are in the public domain. Please visit that page and read all the rules. -- Toytoy 08:49, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

The UK copyright law describes "fair dealing" that is tanatamount to "fair use". The "fair dealing" exception does not apply to photographs used in new reporting. I do not agree that Project Gutenberg's rules are all that you need to know. As I understand matters, they state the US position. Under the Berne Convention each signatory state (of which the US is one) agrees to respect the copyright laws of the others. So, UK copyright applies to works originated in the UK. The small class of works excluded from the current rules is a subset of those works created for which copyright had expired by 1 January 1996 and for which copyright would be revived. That is, in some special cases, the revived copyright has less stringent constraints than full copyright. Works published in the UK before January 1, 1923 may not be in the public domain and UK law does not deem it reasonable to assume that they are in the public domain. The law requires that reasonable steps are taken to identify the rights holders; for photographs published in the Illustrated London News, the best starting point for identifying the rights holders would be the Illustrated London News Group. I guess that ILNG held or holds the appropriate copyrights and I imagine that they will be happy to grant permission to use images from 1916.

Under Berne Convention, each member state can have a more draconian copyright law at home. However, you may not be able to use it easily.

Wikipedia has servers in Florida and France. The contributor is in Australia. The copyright owner may have a difficult time to establish personal jurisdiction in these two cases (Internet is a hot potato). If Wikipedia and the contributor do not show up and are punished by the British court, the plaintiff still cannot easily take the money if U.S. and Australian courts prefer not to enforce the decision.

If the copyright owner decides to file the lawsuit in the U.S., France or Australia, very likely the cause will be infringement occured in these states, therefore U.S., French or Australian copyright laws will be used. In the U.S., anything published before 1923 is in PD. In Australia, I guess they have a even less oppressive down there. I don't know anything about French laws, but the two defendants are very unlikely to show up in a French court. Anyway, if the U.K court finds itself having no personal jurisdiction over the two defendants, it will be difficult for the plaintiff to claim its British copyright overseas.

Copyright laws are just insane. If I were a company that has lots of pictures published 100 years ago, what should I do if people ask me to grant them a license for free? Shall I investigate the date of death of each photographer? If the photographer died less than 70 years ago, I'll ask them to pay me money. Otherwise, I'll let them use the pictures. It's ridiculous. If each day I receive 10 letters, I'll have to hire a full time private investigator and a copyright lawyer to do the free license job. Otherwise, I'll grant them the rights automatically to save my own costs.

Copyright is evil. It keeps everyone other than Mickey Mouse miserable. Neither Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler nor Mao Zedong could invent such a sinister mass destruction device. -- Toytoy 14:43, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

The law only requires one to make reasonable enquiries. ILNG can reasonably say "sorry, we do not have accessible records that far back." The law is then satisfied. --Theo (Talk) 15:55, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The copyright law is evil because if you did not ask for a permission to use a picture taken 100 years ago, the copyright owner may get you if you're a fat sheep.

Most of the times, you may write a polite letter and ask nicely. Possibly they will let you use it. This is ridiculous. If I own a useless land somewhere in a desert, I don't want to be telephoned each time a backpacker wants to cross it. All the paper work is a waste of time. Since I do not want to keep an eye on that land, I'll just let everyone use it.

Copyright law created too many useless, needless and practically "abandoned" lands. However, if the backpacker happens to be Bill Gates, I could sue him at least theoretically. These useless lands can be mine fields. But if each one writes me an e-mail asking for a permission, it will also drive me crazy. OK, I can delete these boring e-mails. But this is not polite.

The life + 70 years rule is evil. The author might had already sold the rights to another party. It is meaningless to provide protection based on the author's life span. Anyway, Mickey Mouse is evil. -- Toytoy 16:37, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Please note that the U.S. date of pre-1923 public domain only applies to works published in the U.S. If the Illustrated London News had a U.S. edition in 1916, hardly likely, you could publish pictures from it on Wikipedia in the public domain even if the same picture was still copyrighted in the UK. See [10] for more detail. Rmhermen 23:35, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Thankyou all for your help. I will email ILN and ask their permission, and unless they forbid me to use the photos I will use them. I am now taking this page off my watchlist. Adam 00:09, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Leather Armour

I met a costume/set designer from yesteryear who claimed his workshop had invented the idea of leather armour (he said it was to reduce the expenses of making metal armour for the entire cast). He didn't deny that peoples before the Greeks or Romans may have worn leather as protection, but claims that neither Romans nor Greeks ever really used leather as armour (not counting, obviously clasps or other "accessories"), and that certainly it was never worn after them, particularly not the hardened leather of the kind that is so ubiquitous in D&D games and computer games.
Do anyone know to what extent leather armour was worn in the last two thousand years? Thanks, --anon

afaik, leather armour is assumed for antiquity, but it is difficult to assess how widespread it was, because all leather would have disintegrated. In the middle ages, padded/quilted textile armour (gambesons) was more common, but leather jerkins were worn also. What is positively known is that leather jerkins remained popular as body armour throughout the 16th and 17th centuries. What your costume designer probably meant was that he invented leather armour intended to look like metal plate armour (i.e. the leather parts simulate the arrangement of metal plates, even if that would be unnecessary with more flexible material). See also [11] for Indian/Silk Road leather armour. We seem to lack articles on most of these. Does anyone feel like importing that information? dab (ᛏ) 08:48, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

That hardened leather, btw, is called cuirbolli or cuir-bolli (which I think literally means "boiled leather"). Googling for it makes for gallons of D&D cruft, and [12], [13], wikibooks:Making Period Leather Armor, and [14] (which quotes a book reference). -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 20:54, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

can you help me?

hi there im planning a trip and was wondering if you could tell me about the road that runs under The English Channel.

could you tell me from which cities it runs.... if you could please help me that would be wonderful thankyou

my email address is abbylou3005@hotmail.com

thank you very much for your time and help kimberly mackie

Hi Kimberley,

the chunnel connects Cheriton in England with Sangatte in France, although it is not properly a road tunnel, but a railway tunnel. The railway offers a vehicle shuttle service, although I seem to recall that it's one of the more expensive ways of crossing the channel (tradtiional ferries are still cheapest) -- Ferkelparade π 19:24, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Quotes on Starbucks coffee cups

Where can I find a list? I have a list of the authors, and lots of comentry, but no list of the actual quotes used.

I can't think of where you'd find such information. I would try to contact Starbucks, themselves by letter, or by simply asking the clerk. --Oldak Quill 18:47, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Title of a stop-motion show

I wanna know the original (and also english, if the case) title of this stop-motion show featuring two brothers\friends that build crazy stuff.

Here's an image of them

Anyone can help me? — Kieff | Talk 06:01, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

Nevermind, found it and even made an article: Pat and Mat — Kieff | Talk 09:50, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

Copyright

Given the present copyright laws, can I print a few paintings of an English painter who lived and painted almost 200 years ago? -anon.

It depends how you plan to reproduce the image. A photograph of a painting may be in copyright even when its subject is out of copyright. --Theo (Talk) 11:01, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

1. What country are you in?
2. In which year did the die artist die? Dunc|☺ 17:32, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

U.S. law considers that simple photograph of a public domain painting cannot be copyrighted. Rmhermen 02:59, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

AFAIK it's a little bit more complex than that.The statutes in at least the US, UK, and Australia are ambiguous on this point, and there is relatively little case law on the topic. In the US, there was a Federal Court decision in one of the circuits that decided, essentially, what you're saying. As I understand the US legal system, that's not binding anywhere outside that jurisdiction; another circuit court may rule differently and the whole thing won't be clear until either Congress changes the laws, or the Supreme Court rules on the topic. In the UK and Australia, the statutes are drafted similarly (to the US and to each other) and there is essentially no case law on the topic. The museum community likes to claim that a separate copyright exists on photos of public domain images, but privately they're quite worried about the American court's decision. IANAL, and Wikipedia doesn't give legal advice, and this is worth exactly what you paid for it. --Robert Merkel 01:46, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Root mean square functions

What are the RMS functions for various waveforms as a function of the amplitudes? Eg. RMS of a sine wave is ${\sqrt {2}}$ of the amplitude. Alphax ^τεχ 08:40, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, two things first: the RMS value of a sine wave is ${\frac {1}{\sqrt {2}}}$ of the amplitude. Also note that "the" RMS value of a waveform depends on where it's centered — for the following I've assumed that the mean value of the wave is 0 (as is usually the case in this context). Using the continuous function formula at RMS, I get

• sawtooth ($f(x)=x$ on [-T/2,T/2] and $f(x+T)=f(x)$): ${\frac {1}{\sqrt {3}}}$ times the amplitude
• triangle ($f(x)=T/4-\left|x\right|$ on [-T/2,T/2] and $f(x+T)=f(x)$): also ${\frac {1}{\sqrt {3}}}$
• square ($f(x)=\operatorname {sgn} \ x$ on [-T/2,T/2] and $f(x+T)=f(x)$): 1 (since its value is always $\pm 1$ times the amplitude

Those are the standard waveforms I know about -- if you want more you'll have to specify them! --Tardis 02:09, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thankyou! I knew square, and I figured sawtooth and triangle would be the same. (How much of this can be added to the RMS article?) Many thanks, Alphax ^τεχ 02:56, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

RMS Climate Change Predictions?

Does anyone know of predictions of root-mean-squared deviations for various climate change models?

Why isn't RMS used more often? It seems to me that they would be a more accurate illustration of how much 'global warming' or other effects there is going to be - especially since predicted warming isn't uniform, thus letting parts of the Earth undergoing cooling cancel out heating in other places.--Fangz 19:16, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

RMS tells you about the variation of something about zero. There's no real zero to use for climate, as far as I can think. And if you did choose a zero, all the RMS would tell you is by how much the (temperature?) varies about that point. I think you just want to do some sort of longish-term averaging. moink 19:26, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I dunno. Why not use today's temperature at that given point?

Eg. we have maps like [15] for a given moment in time. Shouldn't be too hard to square and mean stuff, and then present the data as a time series. The problem with taking a sum average is that it makes a 5 C drop in temperature someplace look like a good thing. Which it definitely isn't!--Fangz 20:26, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ahhhh... you mean RMS in space rather than in time. I've always used RMS in the time sense, so I was a bit confused. moink 22:08, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Color of my sig

This is rather random, but does the "Talk" link on my sig look green to anyone else?

I usually work on my home computer, or one in the university labs, usually using Firefox, and my link looks grey, as it's supposed to. Today I'm in the library (in Edinburgh), using IE, and my link looks green (and a particularly ugly shade of fluorescent green at that). Have I been posting ugly green links next to my name?

The wiki code for my sig is [[User:Asbestos|Asbestos]] | [[User talk:Asbestos|<FONT COLOR="grey">Talk</FONT>]]. Why is it showing up green?

Thanks, — Asbestos | Talk 20:09, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Wait a minute! It's a British/US-English thing, innit?? <FONT COLOR="gray">makes my link grey on this computer. What? I thought HTML was universal. I don't need to change the spelling of "COLOR" to "COLOUR", do I? Isn't there any way to make a grey link grey, independent of the country that my computer is in? — Asbestos | Talk 20:13, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm, well I guess I could change me sig code to <FONT COLOR=#808080>. But can anyone explain why I see "grey" as grey on some computers here in Britain and green on others? Both have Windows XP, so should be up-to-date. Would the majority of British users see my regular sig as green or grey?

— Asbestos | Talk 20:36, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm in Britain, and am using Firefox 1.0 on linux I see it as grey. Thryduulf 20:44, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Here's a quick theory (and no more than that) - the standard is "gray", unsurprisingly, on account of American dominance et cetera et cetera. Opera, Firefox, &c have a bit of code that tells them that "grey" is the same as "gray" is the same as "#808080"; however, IE only has the code to tell it "gray" is the same as "#808080". So, it chokes a bit when it sees "grey" - but it uses green, because it knows "green" is a standard value for the COLOR attribute. And "gre-" - well, what else can that be but green? Try changing it to, oh, <FONT COLOR="grep"> and seeing what IE does... Shimgray 20:48, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Some additional evidence for that theory is that my German version of IE6 also displays an ugly greenish tint, while firefox is okay - so it seems it's not just Brits who have to suffer -- Ferkelparade π 20:52, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Got it... sort of. IE-through-mediawiki renders "gray" as grey, "grey" and "grep" (and "gret") as a lurid green, and "green" as something more akin to a racing green. "blue" is rendered blue, but "blup" or "blur" red. Both "blat" and "blac", surprisingly, come out yellow, though "black" is normal. So I think it is interpreting tyops as colours, but I'm not sure how... Shimgray 20:57, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The standard is "gray"?? I guess that's my confusion. I figured it was "grey", but, looking into it, I realize my main confusion was over which spelling was from which part of the world. That's the problem with getting half your education in Britain and the other half in the US: you end up with rather schizophrenic spelling. Anyway, in the spirit of Wikipedian NPOV and transatlantic harmony, I'm changing my sig to [[User:Asbestos|Asbestos]] | [[User talk:Asbestos|<FONT COLOR=#808080>Talk</FONT>]].

Thanks! — Asbestos | Talk 08:08, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

IE and related browsers do some rather odd processing when they encounter named colours which they don't recognise. Something to do with converting letters to numbers - a rather more thorough explanation can be found on this discussion of IE easter eggs. akaDruid 12:40, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Russian characters on a parcel

A while back I came accross an article that contained a picture of a parcel with an address on it that was written in Russian but had actually been printed using extended latin characters (e.g. something like åÇì ÇäÇ ÚÖæÉ ÌÏíÏÉ æ íÇ ÑíÊ ÊÞÈáæäì). A problem of exactly this nature has occurred on a forum I read, and I want to link to the article as that provides an excellent explanation of what happened. My problem is that even after extensive searching through all the articles I can think of (e.g. UTF-8, Russian language, Cyrillic alphabet, character encoding, Mail, etc) I can't find the article. Can somebody point me in the right direction.

Thanks Thryduulf 20:19, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Mojibake. JRM 22:33, 2005 Apr 20 (UTC)

Precautionary Principle

Can anyone help me answer this question? How do scientists apply the precautionary principle to chemical exposure? How do they determine whether there is ever an "acceptable level" of risk?

You can start by visiting precautionary principle. Good luck with your homework. -- FP 02:50, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

Mandrake internet config - DSL

I'm trying to access the internet through DSL in Mandrake 10.1. My ISP automatically assigns the IP addr. to my PC. Its and works fine in XP. In Mandrake however, I tried a similar setting but can only access Mandrake related sites, the default bookmarks during installation. So no wikipedia, no google etc. Why is this happening?  =Nichalp (talk · contribs)= 09:48, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

Cannot be answered without more details. How is your DSL modem connected? USB? Ethernet? What protocol does it use?

I find it almost unbelievable that you should only be able to access Mandrake sites; aren't you confusing this with accessing the locally installed shipped documentation? David.Monniaux 09:41, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Prolog problem

First off - admission: this is for school. However, it's not a homework problem, its studying for an exam, and it's too late to ask the prof.

If I want to write a prolog program to allocate the correct salaries to staff, such that managers get $40,000, group leaders get $30,000 and averyone else gets $20,000, what's wrong with the following program:

pay(X, 40000) :- manager(X), !.

pay(X, 30000) :- leader(X), !.

pay(_, 20000).

Apparently it might assign someone the wrong salay, but I can't see when. If manager(X) is true, they will get 40000 and nothing else, because of the cut (!). Ditto for leaders, and if it gets all the way down without manager(X) or leader(X) being true, they'll get 20000, no?

Apparently the correct solution is to not use cuts and make the last line

pay(X,20000) :- \+ (manager(X) ; leader(X)).

...and I can see why that would work too, but don't see why the first doesn't.

Thank you for any help.

My prolog is very rusty, but do the cuts prevent subsequent lines being exeuted? I thought it was just subsequent parts of the same line? DJ Clayworth 19:55, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

List of companies that sponsored the Liberal Party of Canada

Where can I find a list of companies that sponsored the Liberal Party of Canada? If the list includes all groups/organizations, that would be preferable. It's alright if they only show companies that donated $n amount of money. Thanks in advance :) -Frazzydee|✍ 14:13, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You could contact them and ask directly. --Theo (Talk) 11:00, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Who gives money to whom is published by Elections Canada. Burgundavia 15:50, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

Lake District

Any useful resources on glaciation for Lake District?

Try:

• Hollingsworth, S. 'The Geology of the Lake District: a review', Proc. Geologists Assoc., 65 (Part 4) 1954
• Moseley, F. Geology of the Lake District, Yorkshire Geological Society, 1978 (ISBN 095016562X)
• Moseley, F. Geology and Scenery in the Lake District, Macmillan, 1986
• Oldroyd, D. 'Early Ideas About Glaciation in the English Lake District: The Problem of Making Sense of Glaciation in a Glaciated Region', Annals of Science, April 1, 1999, vol. 56, no. 2, pp. 175-203(29) — covers the history of thought on the subject up to the mid twentieth century.
• Smith, A Bibliography of Lake District Geology and Geomorphology, Cumberland Geological Society, 1965
  --Theo (Talk) 11:16, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Are those already listed in an article or should I add them as further reading to the Lake District article? - Taxman 22:40, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

I added them. - Taxman 03:33, May 1, 2005 (UTC)

Corporations' quarterly filings -- how to access?

Are the quarterly earnings reports of US companies available online, through the SEC perhaps? Thanks. Mjklin 18:08, 2005 Apr 21 (UTC)

For publicly traded companies information is available from the SEC. The system is called Edgar, search it here. Their interface is fairly poor, so Yahoo finance is actually a decent place to get a lot of what you may be looking for and has links to the Edgar data. - Taxman 05:18, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

Help with .ogg files

I downloaded the .ogg software, following the instructions as closely a I know how. However, when I click on a .ogg file, when I browse to the file where I keep the download is, I just see OOOggComentDump.exe, OOOggDump.exe OOOggStat.exe, and OOOggValidate.exe. Which do I use? I am a Microsoft user Lee S. Svoboda 21:21, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If you just want to play them, as far as I can remember, winamp has an Ogg Vorbis plug-in ... and if not you can get a plug in from vorbis. What do you mean by "thoe ogg software"? --Tagishsimon (talk)

Those are files from the official OGG distribution, and are rather technical in nature (kind of "if you don't already know what this file does, don't ask, 'cos you wouldn't understand the answer). To play, winamp should work, or you could use zinf or the most excellent VLC media player (this is my strong recommendation). To author OGG files, use Audacity. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 23:26, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Just install VLC media player. Little on the Ogg-Vorbis site is meant for the end user. David.Monniaux 09:39, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

laanat

I ran across this comment (since fixed) in Karbala, and it made me wonder what "laanat" means. I assume it's some sort of curse or vituperation, probably in Arabic; am I right? —Charles P. ^(Mirv) 01:26, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It means "curse" in Arabic. - Mustafaa 20:44, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Japanese fonts for X?

I've looked all over the damn web, and X's own documentation is just horrid, and people in EFNet #linux are a bunch of unhelpful egotistic wankers to answer this simple question. Without wasting any more of my time, 1) Where can I download GNU/free Japanese fonts for X/XFree86/X.Org, and 2) How do I install new X fonts so that X programs immediately "see" them (which is also a problem I've been having with X fonts in general)? --I am not good at running 04:27, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

1. They ship with X. If you are under Linux, most distributions ship them in separate packages (i.e. Fedora has fonts-japanese etc.). Search for "Japan" in the package names of the distributions you consider.
2. If installing with packages, everything should be automatic. (Otherwise, you'll have to edit font paths and use mkfontscale and mkfontdir). David.Monniaux 09:38, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The results for locate japan did not yield any font directories, files, or packages, and I installed the entire Slackware distro. Perhaps the fact that my distro is Slackware to begin with, it was left out as nonessential? I ended up finding some Unicode general asian fonts on some obscure FTP site, however, which displays Chinese and Japanese just fine, even though they only come in one nonscalable size it's good enough to do necessary work in. --I am not good at running 19:44, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Titratable iodine

This question was pulled from the WikiEN-l moderation queue:

"Can you tell me if titratable iodine is a natural product. I have a jar of PVP iodine ointment, on the ingredients it only says: 1% titratable iodine. It looks like a petrolium base, is that correct? thanks, Sandy"

I'd appreciate it if somebody could find this out for the benefit of the user who emailed WikiEN-l. - Mark 14:57, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Titration is a way for determining the concentration of something. I would think the titratable iodine is the amount of iodine that could be measured through titration. Iodine is an element and the source of it is probably natural. Myabe someone more familliar with chemistry could elabourate on this. Jeltz talk 18:42, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Titratable iodine is a complexed form of iodine. From what I gather, it is complexed with a "nonionic synthetic detergent." This is due to the fact that I^- and I₂ don't disolve in water. Aqueous iodine is the most usable form for disinfecting, however I^- tends to precipitate out of solution and I₂ tends to bubble away. Complexing Iodine increases the solubility. More soluble=more usable.

pin with ski kurs oberammergau written on it

I have been going thru some of my grandfather's things, he was german and came across a small round pin, the front of the pin is outlined in blue with the words ski kurs oberammergau written on it and the middle is black with ski's crossed. Could you tell me what this is and when it's from. Thank You Diane

Well "ski kurs" is "ski course" and Oberammergau is a village in Bavaria, world-famous for the passion play it puts on every ten years. It sounds to me like some kind of souvenir pin from the local ski resort. I believe the area around Oberammergau is fairly Alpine, so it would make sense for there to be some kind of skiing activity in the area. Putting an exact date on the pin is rather harder of course. Trying to work out when your grandfather might have been skiing in Oberammergau would give you an approximate time, but I suppose you've already done that. I don't know how much German you know, but the article on Oberammergau in the German Wikipedia has a bit more information than ours. You might be interested to read about the Oberammergau Passion Play, as that's the most famous aspect of the place and one reason it's popular with the tourists. — Trilobite (Talk) 15:29, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

On a completely unrelated note, there's an annoying round that involves Oberammergau (and its slightly less famous counterpart, Unterammergau) which runs as follows:

Heut' kommt der Hans zu mir, freut sich die Lies

Ob er aber über Oberammergau

Oder aber über Unterammergau

Oder aber überhaupt nicht kommt, ist nicht gewiss.

I'm quite sure that doesn't help you in the slightest, however. JRM 22:21, 2005 Apr 24 (UTC)

Computer Graphics.

I am fuzzy on the actual name and publication schedule of Computer Graphics. Is it ACM SIGGRAPH Computer Graphics? Computer Graphics Quarterly? I started to write the stub, and then I found out I didn't know what I thought I knew and now I've gone all cross-eyed. grendel|khan 21:36, 2005 Apr 22 (UTC)

The Library of Congress has it as Computer graphics, abbreviated form Comput. graph.. ACM SIGGRAPH computer graphics is down as a "related title". ISSN is 0097-8930; throwing this into a few catalogues gives a general consensus for Computer graphics. HTH. Shimgray 21:42, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

pale of settlement article

Currently the encyclopedia states that:

On March 20 (April 2), 1917, the Pale of Settlement was abolished by the Provisional Government decree On abolition of confessional and national restrictions (Об отмене вероисповедных и национальных ограничений).

Issac Deutscher, historian of the Russian bolshevik revolution, states that bolshevism ended the pale at a later date than above)

See also below:

"The Pale of Settlement was created by a decree of Czar Nicholas 1 in April 1835 and with minor modifications remained Russian policy until 1917 when the Bolshevik revolution removed it from the statute books. It included present day Lithuania, Belarus, Poland, Ukraine, Moldavia, and other regions west of Russia. According to the census of 1897, there were 4,899,300 Jews lived in the Pale, forming approximately 11.6% of the total population."

So was it the Kerensky Government or the Bolsheviks who ended the Pale?

Hitler's moustache

Maybe this is an old topic, but I've never really found out what his moustache was all about. Just in general, I'm curious to learn about it. Was that a popular style at the time or was that his own personal creation? Whats the name of that style moustache? Was it popularized in Germany after he reached the level of fame that he did? Is it symbolic of anything? Did he keep it all throughout his time in power? and so on. I found this picture of Julius Schreck bearing the same style moustache, which might imply that it was at least popular within the Nazi leadership--Clngre 02:31, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)

A couple things I remember off the top of my head, I'm sure others can fill in more detail: the only common name for that type of moustache I've heard is "Hitlerbärtchen" (Hitler moustache), although it seems to have been a bit more common among artist types in the 1920s (I remember reading something about Charlie Chaplin once complaining that Hitler stole his moustache, but my memory is a bit hazy on that point), and of course Hitler considered himself an artist even though he definitely wasn't one of much merit. From photographs and documentary films I've seen (quite a few), it seems that Hitler's style of moustache became quite a fashion trend in Nazi Germany, but it completely disappeared after 1945 for obvious reasons (I'd wager a guess that it disappeared from other countries a couple of years before 1945, but I've never seen a study in that area) -- Ferkelparade π 02:40, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Interesting. It's kind of a shame that its now inextricably associated with him and all but impossible for any conscientious person to wear, I actually think it looks pretty good. It's amazing how somebody can literally ruin something like this, something like a style of moustache. I wager it'll be at least another 50 years before it becomes somewhat acceptable to trim facial hair in this manner. --Clngre 02:50, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it's kind of a shame - it might look rather stylish, but it's impossible to wear due to the obvious implications. One more thing on your last question: from the photos I know, it seems that Hitler wore a more traditional moustache during WW1 (see here for an example, Hitler's the guy on the left), but when he surfaced in Munich shortly after the war, he already wore his trademark moustache - there's a rather famous photo of a nationalist rally in Munich in the very early 1920s where Hitler can be seen among the spectators (that was before he joined the DAP), and he already has his tiny moustache at that time. All later photographs and movies right through to the end show Hitler wearing this style of moustache, so it seems he never changed it after that time -- Ferkelparade π 02:52, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The same goes for the name Adolf I suppose. I'd be interested to see some statistics comparing the prevelance of that name before the rise of the Nazis, during their rule, and in the time since the war. I assume it's somewhat tainted these days, but am I wrong? And was it ever widespread before or was it a relatively uncommon name all along? I did once see a sign in Germany with Adolf on, in a context unrelated to Hitler, so it can't be completely taboo. — Trilobite (Talk) 03:04, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There is a website used for selecting baby names that graphically shows popularity of various first names in the U.S. throughout the 20th century and up to 2003. It does indeed show that Adolf/Adolph was very popular until right after the war, then it tapered off into nothingness. [16] Joyous 16:06, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

Adolf was a rather standard name in pre-Third Reich Germany - not one of the top ten German first names, but not totally exotic either. There actually was a noticeable rise in babies named Adolf during the 1930s - however, the name became a taboo in post-WW2 Germany, most people with that name changed it after the war, and nobody would christen their baby Adolf, so the name has all but died out. There are some older people who refused to change their first name after the war for one reason or the other, but i suppose you can count all Germans named Adolf currently alive on one hand. It's really strange how common everyday things like first names and moustaches can disappear due to political implications -- Ferkelparade π 03:12, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It really is interesting. When you think about it, so many superficial little things were made extinct by the Nazi's. The letters "SS", the Roman salute and so on. Probably one of the worst casualties is the swastika, which truly is a beautiful and transcendent form and is most likely lost for at least many more years, at least in Western society. I also wonder how many of the things we subconsciously associate with "evil" today are actually descendant from the Nazi's. Thinking about it reminds me of the evil mastermind character in the cartoon Inspector Gadget. Very Nazi-esque appearance. I wonder what he would look like in a parallel world that didnt have WWII. I also wonder if the same type of cultural collateral damage happened for other historical people or events. If the haircut or dress or first name of other despised historical figures left the same wake of taboos. It'd be interesting to plot a graph with the mass popularity of specific first names, relative to the fame or infamy of people who had them. By that logic the names "Winston" and "Franklin" must have been hugely popular amongst the baby boomers--Clngre 04:33, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)

I totally agree with you about the swastika. My hope is that the presence of Hindus and Buddhists in the West will act as a kind of seed for its eventual rehabilitation. There was a move to bring in a blanket ban of its display across the EU recently, and while obviously I have no sympathy for those who wish to use it with its Nazi connotations, and no wish to paper over history by pretending those connotations don't exist, I was pleased when the proposal was fairly quickly knocked down. — Trilobite (Talk) 04:50, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The 卐 symbol has been used by Buddhists for over 1000 years. It is totally unjustifiable for anyone to ban it just because of its superficial resemblance to the Nazism symbol, a 20th century invention. Except for the recent Chinese panda cracker affair [17], I remember in the late 1980s or early 1990s, a batch of vegetarian instant noodles sent to the U.S. or somewhere in Europe from Taiwan was protested or banned (can't remember the details) because of the same reason. It was hooliganism and disrespect to other people. Buddhism is a global religion. Anyone who bothers to spend one afternoon to protest shall use the time in a library to re-educate him/herself. -- Toytoy 14:39, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

The damage has been done. I went to a nearby supermarket to have a look (I live in Taipei, Taiwan). There are 3 brands of vegetarian instant noodles, the brand that was caught in the trouble dropped their big 卐 symbol shortly after the unhappy experience. The other two brands are placing the small symbol in less visible places. There are other vegetarian foods, and I did not notice anything other than the two instant noodles carries the 卐 symbol. A frozen food maker used a lotus flower (another Buddhism symbol) instead. Most of them used text description.

Many Asian vegetarian food makers are shipping their products worldwide. They cannot afford to lose money on avoidable cultural disputes.

Vegetarianism now becomes more acceptable among non-Buddhists. I guess some food makers may want to tone down the religious appeal in their products to please more customers. I still feel somewhat uneasy with this chilling effect even though I am a Christian. -- Toytoy 15:21, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

@Ferkelparade: Your assumption that you can count all Germans named Adolf currently alive on one hand is ridiculous. You should do at least a little research, before you confuse our clueless american/english/canadian etc. fellow citizens with such foolish utterances. Actually there are at least hundreds, if not thousands living Adolfs in Germany – not to mention Austria. ;) — Daniel FR 22:11, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Huh..."ridiculous" and "foolish" might be a bit of a strong choice of words, but anyway...of course, I didn't mean that all Adolfs literally can be counted on one hand (as in, there's between 2 and 5 of them), but a couple hundred in all of Austria and Germany is still an extremely low number, and I'd bet that none of them were christened after 1945 (so in essence the name is really dying out). Unfortunately, the Statistisches Bundesamt doesn't publish a complete list of German first names on their website, but in the over 30 years I've been living all over southern Germany, i've never encountered a single person called Adolf, and I've never met anyone who would even consider to christen their baby Adolf. Anecdotal evidence, sure, but definitely not a foolish and ridiculous assumption. Ferkelparade π 12:32, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Reference can be found ([18]) that between 1984 and 2003 76 of 791.879 new born boys in Austria were named Adolf. You can project that number (1 in 10.000)... — Daniel FR 20:58, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Bizarre dumps of Wikipedia articles on random websites

I've noticed a large number of seemingly unrelated webpages are plastered with random chunks of text from Wikipedia articles — even in their titles! Does anyone know what this could be? ‣ᓛᖁᑐ 06:20, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Examples:

• http://loan.enscot.com/the/a-the.html
• http://refinance-mortgage.bw-news.com/were-apache-classification.html

I thougt all text was available for anyone to use?

Hmmm, very strange. I'm not sure what it is exactly but I'll bet my life that this is somehow related to arcane and unethical search engine optimization. -- FP ?? 14:36, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)

Mortgages and loans are common spam topics. Could the incorporation of our text be related to generation of email spam that fools certain kinds of spam detectors? alteripse 21:02, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's SEO junk. Wikipedia has a ton of high-quality content with keywords that people search for. It makes sense for them to use it for SEO. Rhobite 05:31, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

broadcasting a message to a vandal in mediawiki

I'm the admin of a private mediawiki wiki, and I have problems with vandals. I have written messages in their talk pages, but I don't think they have seen them. How do I get the message (it's a template called "vandal") to be broadcasted to the vandal whenever they access my wiki, like Wikipedia admins are able to do? What markup does this? Thanks in advance. 69.157.0.206 20:31, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm not a MediaWiki expert, but I believe that they'll get a banner message whenever you write something on their talk page. Maybe there's a setting you need to enable. But if it's a private wiki, why don't you just disable anonymous edits, and require approval for user accounts? I know that is possible. Rhobite 20:36, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)

If he's not answering this banner message, the only thing left is mediawiki:sitenotice. This is permanently visible to all users (it's intended for general announcements like "we'll be offline on Thursday for maintainance") and is added to every page. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 20:52, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

anaheim CA stats for 1983

Hello,

Great Site!! I am currently working to win City of Anaheim business and need some facts from 1983 - I would greatly appreciate if you could send me the folowing by Tuesday April 26 (not much time, I know - but it's a deadline) anyway, here goes,

Median home prices in Anaheim 1983 Average income in Anaheim in 1983 Price for a gallon of gas in 1983 (in Anaheim, if you can get it) any other Anaheim 1983 news that you can dig up would be great

Thanks very much in advance for your help - I can let you know if we win the business if you like - then feel free to use us as a testimonial....

Regards

Rasch Cousineau email; rcousineau@icmarc.org

• Perhaps you should hire a research assistant; I for one don't care to help people trying to make a profit using others' kindness. 119 03:51, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Either of that or hit up the tax-supported LOC! --Alterego 01:21, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

frame attached to a photon ?!

In quantum field theory, I understand that photon is a kind of quanta.

The special theory of relativity on the other hand indicates there is no object that moves at the speed of light. And indeed, no one has yet observed any objects that move at the speed higher than that of light (notice that such objects are not necessarily UN-observable, unless the direction of motion is away from you). And I do understand within the classical theory that waves and objects are different, and that light is an electromagnetic wave.

Considering the above context, could someone explain to me how it does not make sense to carry out analyses on the frame attached to a photon in quantum field theory? Is it that a photon does not 'feel' proper time in relativity, while other quata such as electrons do?

Sorry if I do not make sense. If I do make some sense, tell me where I make sense and where I do not.

Thanks, User:Principia

A photon is a quantum of light; that is, it is the smallest divisible unit of light. It has no mass and has the velocity of light. Light shows the characteristics of particles (albeit massless ones) and waves, which presents a problem for classical physics.

Einstein's Special theory of relativity describes the motion of particles moving at close to the speed of light. A consequence of it is that no object can accelerate to the speed of light. A photon (and any other object with zero mass) can travel at the speed of light because it exists at the speed of light and does not accelerate to reach that speed. Other consequences of the special theory are that an increase in velocity increases the mass of the moving object (e=mc²), reduces its length along the direction of its motion (The Lorentz contraction) and slows time (Time dilation). It is not, therefore, that photons experience time in an abnormal way; more that the experience is extreme because photons exist at a boundary condition. --Theo (Talk) 14:42, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

RW CDs

Who patented RW CDs?

Dave

Royal Philips Electronics, Sony Corporation and Ricoh Company Ltd. all filed the essential patents upon which CD-RW depends. --Theo (Talk) 13:40, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Even though a single company may invent a technology wholly on its own, people may not buy it. You cannot have the whole cake and eat it all. There will be challengers. In the high-tech business, many companies may develop overlapping or complement technologies concurrently and form alliances later. Sometimes, one company invented a dye usable as a recording medium, another developed a way to spray it on polycarbonates, and another created a high speedlaser diode ... . In the end, some companies mergered or cross-licensed and the remaining parties form an alliance.

To help selling their own technology, the allience may want to gather all essential patents and many other non-essential ones to form a patent pool. The creation of a patent pool can save patentees and licensees time and money. If you obtain a license from the common front-end, you will have all the required patents and will not be sued. If you do it patent by patent, either the patentees will not do business with you, or you will be sued because you overlooked just one bloody patent. Patent pool partners can also distribute their earnings according to their contracts.

On the other hand (I have never seen a lawyer with only one hand), patent pool challenges the idea of fair trade because you are not allowed to cherry pick your patents. Either you buy the Happy Meal, or you drop dead. How to regulate patent pools? How to tell a well behaving patent pool from the otherwise illegal tie-in or trust? Patent pooling has become a hotly debated field these years.

A single inventive company such as IBM may be able to create a patent pool of its own. But many patents pools are created by multiple companies. The CD-R patent pool is owned by Koninklijke Philips Electronics, N.V. (the Netherlands); Sony Corp. (Japan); and Taiyo Yuden Co., Ltd. (Japan). Their licensing terms to many companies was "3 percent of the net selling price with a minimum of 10 Yen [per licensed product]"[19]. -- Toytoy 17:42, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot to say this patent pool is for cyanine dyes CD-R discs (dark green discs). If you want to make a CD-R compatible drive or a CD-RW disc, you need other patent pools. -- Toytoy

Cabin pressure of a space ship

See: Apollo 1

• The atmosphere would not be pressurized to two lb/in² (14 kPa) above atmospheric pressure

2 psi over sea level atmospheric pressure (1.14 atm)? Pure oxygen? What's wrong with them? I mean the cabin pressure of a typical commercial airlinear is about 0.75 atm of normal air (20% oxygen; 0.15 atm O₂; FAA requirement; air pressure at 8,000 ft). Why did they use such ridiculous high pressure of pure oxygen during a simulation?

If they wanted to simulate a 0.14 atm positive pressure in space, they could have pumped 0.94 atm extra nitrogen to the cabin (total pressure: 0.94 atm N₂ + 0.2 atm O₂ = 1.2 atm). The cabin air would be breathable and safe. Why couldn't they do that on the ground? I mean since you were not in space, you could afford to attach some additional gas tanks and pumps.

What was the actual cabin pressure when they were in space? If it was 0.14 atm pure oxygen, the pressure would have been too low (only enough oxygen) but the risk of a fire was nearly zero. You could set the pressure a little higher (lowest pressure a man could handle) and still use pure oxygen. The risk of a fire increased with added oxygen pressure. But letting them breath pure oxygen saved some weight. If anything went wrong (such as the Apollo 13 oxygen tank explosion), the remaining pure oxygen in cabin could let them survive longer. I guess it was a good choice to use pure oxygen in space.

What is the lowest pressure (pure oxygen) a trained man can withstand without prolonged depressurization and repressurization (see: decompression sickness? Even if you had already breathed pure oxygen in advance, when you lose air pressure very quickly, would the air in your stomach cavity pop your diaphragm and make you unable to breathe? -- Toytoy 14:11, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

Martial law in the UK

Who is the "head of the army" in the UK? And what rank? Who else could put the country under martial law?--212.100.250.210 14:31, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The head of the army in the UK is General Sir Mike Jackson, Chief of the General Staff. --Theo (Talk) 18:47, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't think the army has anything to do with the declaration of martial law; isn't that the sort of thing that Cabinet does? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 03:22, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No, the commander-in-chief of the British Armed Forces is the British Monarch, Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom. She acts on the "advice" (which she can't really reject) of the British Cabinet, led by the British Prime Minister, Tony Blair. Now, on the question of martial law, my guess is that it is only the Monarch who can apply martial law, there'd be involvement of the cabinet and chief constables, etc, and there may be some antiquarian laws, some WWII era laws, some anti-IRA terrorism laws, and probably something in the post-September 11 anti-Islamic terrorism laws. A search of government sites for martial law mostly shows when it has been instigated in the past. Dunc|☺ 10:55, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I suspect there is no such concept as Martial Law in UK law or the British Constitution, although there are various bits of legislation such as those than Duncharris has mentioned. Certainly he Chief of the General Staff (or even the Chief of the Defence Staff, who is overall in command of the UK armed forces) would have no ability to declare martial law, and I would think even the monarch or cabinet would not be able to do such a thing without specific legislation. However in case of overwhelming urgent need the Government would probably be able to persuade Parliament to pass a law extremely quickly. rossb 11:12, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I suspect you may be asking the wrong question. Ultimately, the ability of somebody to order "martial law" depends on whether army officers, and ultimately soldiers will accept the orders, particularly if it involves shooting their own countrymen. In addition, constitutional questions aren't decided in Britain on the basis of arguing them out in the Supreme Court. Ultimately, constitutional questions rest on the collective judgement of Parliament and the Monarch, because the constitution is essentially what Parliament says it is; there's no requirement for a referendum to change it. Finally, in the Cold War era there were plans, in the event of a nuclear attack, to dissolve Parliament entirely and devolve all authority to regional councils; that's probably the closest thing to your conception of martial law contemplated in modern Britain (leaving Northern Ireland aside for the moment...). I don't know how much, if any, consideration was put into the legalities of the idea; in the situation, legalities would have probably been beside the point somewhat.--Robert Merkel 12:43, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I heard a radio programme about all this once, and AFAIK the plan was to put high-ranking civil servants in charge of specified local areas where they would hold essentially unlimited power, including the authority to order troops to shoot civilians trying to get at food supplies etc. I agree with Duncharris and Ross Burgess that there probably isn't such a thing as "martial law" in any presently existing legislation, but that there are various emergency powers that could come into play in a major emergency. Mike Jackson would not be able to decide this for himself, only carry out the orders of the Cabinet, as authorised to act by whatever powers Parliament had granted them. — Trilobite (Talk) 13:37, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• I found this article to have some interesting historical points; I suspect someone more up on British political and legal niceties could get more info out of it. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 14:56, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My trusty 1929 "Manual of Military Law" tells me that the UK has no concept of martial law per se; it requires a specific Act of Parliament to be instigatable. However, there is a recognition of the right of the Crown and its armed forces to take whatever steps may be neccessary in an extremity to defend the nation, extra-ordinary circumstances, &c &c. These are common-law, however (see English law), and as such aren't called martial law in the modern sense... troops called out during peacetime class as "military aid to the civil power", and are subject to civilian law as well as military. Shimgray 20:14, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

highest honor for serving in the armed forces in the USA

What is the highest honor one can receive for heroic actions etc. while serving in the armed forces in the United States?

The Medal of Honor. 119 17:44, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Smith & Kerns / Smith & Kearns

There exists a cocktail that is a lot like a White Russian but with coffee liqueur (e.g. Kahlua) as the sole booze (i.e. no vodka). Is the correct name of this cocktail "Smith and Kerns" or "Smith and Kearns"? Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 20:42, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

• I've always seen the latter, but I'm no bartender. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:37, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

  Thanks. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 21:55, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

• Around here, Kahlua + cream = a sombrero. According to a couple random drink sites, a Smith & Kearns has club soda or seltzer. Rhobite 22:48, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

  Yes that's true. I just meant Kahlua is the only alcohol in a S&K. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 01:02, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

• Throw in Coke instead of fizz water, and it's called a Colorado Bulldog. Which I'd never heard of before yesterday at dinner, when my mother-in-law ordered one, but got a Smith & Kearns (we were, after all, in Kern County) instead. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 00:32, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  That's funny. Last night I ordered a Smith & Kearns and they said the best they could do was a Colorado Bulldog (I guess they didn't have any club soda). I had never heard of a Colorado Bulldog till last night either. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 01:02, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

Kahlua and cream is called a sombrero? Never heard that one. Back home, I usually called it a brown cow, but when I moved here I figured out that no one knew what that was, so I've switched to calling it Kahlua and milk. I've also never heard of putting club soda in it. I imagine that would be terrible. But I'm no fan of carbonation. moink 03:55, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

no good deed goes unpunished

Where/What/Who did this quote come from?

Clare Boothe Luce said it. --Theo (Talk) 21:31, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Why is it so well known today among the masses, whereas Luce is not?

Survival of a meme does not depend on the celebrity of its source. But also see [20], this sort of aphorism loses its source very early on. JRM 09:44, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

email forwards are a great example of this. Quite often the original attribution gets lost, or even replaced with a more reknowned name, while the content stays, for the most part, the same. --CVaneg 19:12, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Latin names of Oxford Colleges

Can someone please point me to any source for the official Latin names of the colleges of the University of Oxford? Thanks. rossb 22:19, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Not a lot of use I guess, but if you can get a video of a graduation ceremony from the Sheldonian, you'll hear them all read out. GWO

Well that's one way, I suppose. And based on my recollections of 30-odd years ago, it might also be instructive to compare and contrast the different approaches to pronouncing Latin. rossb 09:52, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hydrogen Peroxide + Pool Water?

Sometime in the early to mid 1990's, my parents took the kids (including me) on a Florida vacation. We visited several theme parks, including Wet & Wild in Orlando, Florida. I fell and scraped my elbow near the wave pool, leaving a good-sized wound. When we returned to the hotel, prior to showering, my parents attempted to cleanse the wound with Hydrogen Peroxide. Some sort of reaction between the pool-water chemicals & the peroxide, however, turned it corrosive, leaving me with a somewhat larger wound.

I've always wondered exactly what happened... Can any amateur chemists out there speculate on what reaction could have caused Hydrogen Peroxide to turn corrosive? 70.19.142.51 01:47, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ever skeptical, I wonder how you know the wound is larger than it would have been without the hydrogen peroxide? Peroxide is a weak antiseptic and quite safe to skin. It is hard to imagine it damaging healthy tissue. It is even harder imaging that any significant amount of residual chlorine compound from the pool water survived your parents' mopping at your wound and the trip back to the hotel. The major medical use of peroxide is to get blood stains out of white coats, for which it is nigh miraculous. The scarring from an elbow abrasion depends more on the depth of the abrasion-- any areas that lost full thickness of dermis would heal with obvious scarring (like third degree burns). alteripse 02:14, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

What strength H2O2 was it? Normally 3% is used for medical purposes. If your parents accidentally used technical grade peroxide (30% or higher) then a slight oxidising effect might have occurred. Did it fizz or bubble when applied to the skin? From personal experience, I can say industrial strength peroxide dries the skin out and makes it temporarily become white and itchy, but doesn't cause any serious damage from short-term exposure. Like alterprise, I doubt that there was any specific reaction with swimming pool water, and I also am generally skeptical that the peroxide worsened your wound. -- FP ?? 07:15, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

I assumed on vacation in a hotel that the only strength they would have had access to would have been the common drugstore/household/medical strength. However, even that strength foams when in contact with blood. alteripse 11:38, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but more vigorous fizzing suggests a higher strength. Anyway, I have found some resources that suggest hydrogen peroxide is cytotoxic even to healthy tissues and ineffective at killing bacteria ([21], [22], [23], [24]). I can't really comment because I haven't used it except in a laboratory context, but on balance it seems that peroxide is not recommended for wounds any more, and indeed it may have had had a negative effect on the wound. (And the pool water probably had no relevance on anything). -- FP ?? 05:02, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

My guess is that it was the fizzing that made you/your parents think that an unwanted chemical reaction had occured. As others have noted, though, H2O2 always fizzes in contact with blood. While FirstPrinciples notes that H2O2 isn't really recommended anymore, any concentration that your parents would have been able to pick up at a drug-store/hotel lobby would not have been strong enough to cause any adverse effects. As others have said, I think you're working under the faulty assumption that whatever your parents did made your wound worse, but that's very unlikely. — Asbestos | Talk 17:20, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If there was chlorine in the water and the wound, couldn't it have reacted with the peroxide to create hydrochloric acid? RickK 66.60.159.190 17:56, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Well, that reaction doesn't really take place. I assume the chlorine you are referring to is Cl₂. In that case, the chlorine is oxidized in the air/water and creates HOCl. It's a rather strong acid. This acid dissolves in the water, and makes H+ and OCl- ions. The OCl- ion then react with hydrogen peroxide to give water, oxygen gas, and chlorine ions. Chlorine ions are harmless (they're found in table salt for example). However, the prescence of chlorine will make the water more acidic becuase of the H+, but these are easily mopped up with other chemicals. HappyCamper 19:10, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

MP3 Audio Recorder

Does anyone know of a portable product which can record audio (using a microphone) as either WAV, MP3, OGG, or WMA? It would have to be fairly small and plug into either firewire or usb, and hopefully it can use memory cards (such as Compact Flash) Failing that, does anyone know of anything which is portable and can record audio that cost under AU$150? Thanks --Fir0002 10:22, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)-

My little Samsung Yepp YP-T5 mp3 player has a microphone and will record to WAV (vexatiously, it will record FM radio to MP3, but not the microphone input). It plugs into usb1.1 and stores stuff on its internal memory (it's 128mb, but there are larger ones in the range). I think you should look at other portable mp3 players, as this surely isn't the only one with a microphone. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 10:50, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I recently got a Creative MuVo Micro N200, that would probably do the trick. It doesn't take memory cards, but it is very small. It records either via a built in microphone or via a line-input (not that I have tried that feature yet). Your only problem is price, but the 256Mb version may be around AU$150. -- Solipsist 11:16, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Battles in the English Civil War

Could someone please name two battles in the English Civil War won by the Cavaliers (Royalists). Also, if known, where I could obtain battle plans for these. Thankyou very much,--J.B. 14:30, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

from English Civil War: 1643 the Royalist forces won at Battle of Adwalton Moor... Subsequent battles in the west of England at Battle of Lansdowne and at Battle of Roundway Down also won by Royalists... Battle of Lostwithiel. That's four. Dunc|☺ 15:01, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Adwalton Moor (June 30 1643)
• Lansdown (July 5 1643)
• Roundway Down (July 13 1643)
• Bristol (July 26 1643)
• Cropredy Bridge (June 29 1644)
• Lostwithiel (August 31 1644)

Try Smurthwaite, D. The Ordnance Survey Complete Guide to the Battlefields of Britain, (London: Osprey, 1993) ISBN 0718136551. --Theo (Talk) 14:51, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Methinks we could do more work on listig the major battles, and adding info & link boxes to the battle pages. Some more info here [25] for those without access to the OS book. A task for sometime... --Tagishsimon (talk)

bride's family picks up the wedding tab

Why is it the traditional custom (...in America; I'm not sure if it is in other countries) for the bride's family to pay for the wedding or at least for most of it?

Also does anybody know statistics about how many weddings still function as this, or with our "changing times" are weddings split 50/50 more often, etc.?

As to the first part of your question, maybe it's related to the old idea of a dowry, but don't quote me on that one. As to the second, I doubt that there are any statistics (at least not sound ones) regarding the respective financial comitments of each side of the family, but in most of the recent weddings I've been to, the budget has come from both families, and sometimes from some of the couple's own money. In cases where one family had more money than the other, the richer side tended to contribute a bit more. I think it would be exceedingly rare in modern times, except in cases of deceased or estranged parents, for a groom's family to contribute absolutely nothing to the cost of the ceremony. --CVaneg 23:33, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In India, dowry is still not an "old idea", but a receding one. Different communities (read as castes) have different traditions. In most, the bride's family pays for it. In some communities, the wedding expense is met by the groom's family, but still the bride's family gives dowry to the groom's family. -- Sundar (talk · contribs) 05:06, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

It's possible that the Anglo-American tradition has something to do with a dowry, but I doubt it. In England dowries were confined to the highest social classes and were pretty rare even among the nobility by the 18th century. I think it's more likely to be to do with the fact that in England before the modern era weddings usually took place in the bride's parish church (because it was easier for an unmarried young man to travel). The couple would return to the bride's parents' house after the wedding, hence the bride's parents' provided the entertainment. (You should note that the modern wedding "traditions" — white gown, morning dress, hotel reception, etc, with associated expense — are quite recent; they are an attempt by the middle classes to copy the society weddings of the early 20th century. A 19th century wedding was typically much less elaborate.) My personal experience (in the {[United Kingdom]]) is that couples generally pay for their own weddings. Gdr 14:35, 2005 Apr 27 (UTC)

Using Wikipedia in my Bibliography

I have to do a research paper and I would like to use wikipedia as one of my reference sources. However, I don't know how to site it correctly. Can anyone help? Thanks! --anon.

See Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia. Frencheigh 01:40, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Swarovski crystals

Hi, I'm doing a (high school) science project on Swarovski crystals and can't find much info on the topic. I need to know how they are coloured and how light reflects them(basicly the science behind these crysals-if any.) Any information would be greatly appreciated. thank you very much, --anon

I believe Swarovski glass has an unusually high percentage of lead; see glass and refractive index for some information on how this affects the sparkle of the glass. The company guards its formulas closely, so you may not be able to find out exactly what goes into the colorings. —Charles P. ^(Mirv) 02:03, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

16 mm vs. digital video

I am attending a film workshop over the summer and found that at my location we will be using digital video cameras to shoot our film, but at two of the other locations they will be using 16mm Arriflex-S cameras. What is the difference? Is one better then the other? Should I be concerned that I am at a disadvantage using DV cameras?

You may remember film. It's what used to be used before all of this digital malarky. Long ribbon with lots of perforations and discrete frames making up the picture. IMO the 16mm cameras of which you speak will be using this steam-age technology. But I don't think you'll be at a disadvantage, so much as you'll be experiencing a different medium. --Tagishsimon (talk)

If I were you, I'll do my best to migrate to the 16 mm location. Reason: This could be your only chance in life to shoot a film project. If money is not a problem, let me shoot a movie the old-fashioned way at least once.

Film has many restraints: length limited by the magazine (usually only minutes) and cost issues may force you to think over and over before shooting. This is what tells a good film worker from a bad one. Remember, your purpose is learning. A more restrictive tool could be more helpful.

If you want to learn more, you may consult American Cinematographer Manual and American Cinematographer Video Manual published by American Cinematographer. -- Toytoy 08:29, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

the death of a pope?

This question may be a little odd as I do not see the answer posted within the contents of your web site. But here it goes anyway. Is it true that there was a pope after John Paul I but before John Paul II that didnt get a chance to serve due to a sudden death? And then John Paul I was immediately ellected to replace him? -- anon.

Pope John Paul I was the short-lived pope; he died 33 days after his election. His predecessor Pope Paul VI was pope for about 15 years, and his successor was Pope John Paul II.-gadfium 05:08, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Death of Aquilia Severa

Does anyone know when and how Aquilia Severa, one-time Vestal Virgin and second/fourth wife of Roman Emperor Elagabalus, died? I've found claims that she remained with him until his assassination, but was she killed along with him, as seemed to be traditional? If she survived, what did she do? There seems to be little known about Severa, other than that she married Elagabalus and that it caused a scandal — any other details about her life would be welcome, too. -- Vardion 09:09, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No mention of her death on the Dutch wikipedia either, but it does have a nice picture of her: [26]

IN DESPREAT NEED OF AN ANSWER

I'm sure we would all like to help you, but we're in desperate need of a question before we can give an answer :P Ferkelparade π 14:28, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• The answer is YES. I hope that was fast enough for your needs --Alterego 14:39, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)
• Come on guys, this one is easy. 42 is the answer of course. - Taxman 22:30, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

• It seems you're also in desperate need of a spelling lesson. Happy to oblige at any time. Cheers JackofOz 23:07, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• I can tell you three guarded secret ingredients of Coca Cola: water, sugar and carbon dioxide. Many Bothans died to bring us this information. Kid, you're gonna be rich! -- Toytoy 06:20, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

In the US at least, they don't even use real sugar anymore unless you find the kosher stuff. Otherwise it's high fructose corn syrup. Here is one link, and many others corroborate that, but Coca Cola claims [here that bottlers can use either based on cost. I think high fructose corn syrup is always cheaper, but market conditions could vary I guess. This should probably go in the article. - Taxman 18:39, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

The over-production of maize has been a problem of the U.S. for the past 200 years. In the 19th century, they made whisky. Result: drunken men everywhere. It ended up with the Prohibition. In recent years, U.S. farmers use maize and wheat to feed cattles. Result: the USDA and USTR are asking every contry in the world to buy U.S. beef even after the BSE and downer fiascoes. Another way to burn the maize is to produce and require cars to use gasohol. It's also a controversial policy. High fructose corn syrup, a.k.a. empty calories, is now making the U.S. one of the fattest nations in the world. I think the invention of corn syrup in the 1970s was one of the reasons that the U.S. could afford to embargo Cuba for so long. -- Toytoy 09:14, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

Are there any wikis/public databases listing political statistics like poll histories and fundraising totals?

I believe it would be enormously useful to have a massive database of political statistics for analysis. Here's an example: everyone knows it's good to have a lead in the polls, say, ten months before the election. But is it important? If we had a historical list of all the candidates who had leads ten months before the election, we could see how often those candidates wound up winning. If the result weren't too revealing (say, 50-60%) it wouldn't be too instructive. If the result were over 90%, however, we might really be onto something.

I'm thinking of making a wiki on this and seeing if it can't take off, but I don't want to repeat anyone's work. So do any of these databases exist? Can the public access them? --Wwjdd 19:50, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't know if any currently exist, but that would be ideal for incorporating in the proposed (and I think, likely soon accepted) Wikidata project, which will incorporate data of precisely that sort. Tuf-Kat 20:36, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

OpenSecrets compiles campaign funding data in order to identify any significant trends. The data is mostly free and open to the public, though they apparently raise some money by charging fees for custom data collection/analysis. As for poll info, the only good free repository I know of is Pew (general info or data archive). The Roper Center has tons of information available to researchers, but I'm not sure what hoops one has to jump through to get it. Roper also has a good list of other resources for public opinion data. amysayrawr 23:29, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

http://www.pollingreport.com/2004.htm — Sebastian (talk) 00:36, 2005 Apr 27 (UTC)

Divided by a common language

In perhaps one of the strangest VfD discussions I've yet been involved in (Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Invigilator) I have just had cause to quote somebody as saying that "England and America are two nations divded by a common language", but to whom should I be giving atribution. A websearch suggests it might be either Winston Churchill, George Bernard Shaw or Oscar Wilde, but it doesn't appear on any of their pages at Wikiquote (Q:Winston Churchill), Q:George Bernard Shaw, Q:Oscar Wilde). Wikiquote does though point out that Messrs Churchill and Wilde are often misattributed quotes. Can anyone help? Thryduulf 23:30, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• I'd happily bet it's not Wilde. If I had to lay money, I'd pick Churchill over Shaw, but I'm not sure it's either of them. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:46, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

The original source seems to be

"Mrs. Otis had a magnificent constitution and a really wonderful amount of animal spirits. Indeed, in many respects she was quite English and was an excellent example of the fact that we have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, the language" -- Oscar Wilde, _The Canterville Ghost_ (1888). http://www.bibliomania.com/0/5/57/313/16466/1/frameset.html

Cough up, Jmabel.  :)

The attribution to Shaw seems to stem from a 1942 copy of "Readers Digest". Kudos to the newsgroup "alt.quotations". -- GWO

• Have you ruled out H.L. Mencken? Probably my misconception, but still, he's logical for writing The American Language. --Jerzy (t) 08:13, 2005 Apr 28 (UTC)

Spanish film

A few days ago, I saw a Spanish film (with French subtitles) that was really cool. But nobody i saw it with remembers what the title is: here's the plot: Arabic dude is going out with Jewish girl, goes to her house, thinks he's killed the Jewish girl's dad after dropping frozen soup outta the window in a high-rise flat. Then that dad goes for a wander, finds a hooker he thinks is his wife....there's a Jewish ginger-haired guy (who looks very similar to me) who reckons the Arabic guy is a terrorist who tries2teach his little sister to read the jewish alphabet. And the moslem guy has a really bad sweat problem. So...what it this film called? Reply here, but pls put a note on my talkpage --Wonderfool t(c)e) 00:24, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• It's Seres queridos, English title "Only Human". --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 00:46, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Slaughterhouse-Five or: The Children's Crusade

I started reading books off of the modern library's 100 best english language books awhile ago, and just finished Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five.

I understand that Vonnegut uses black humor and is satirical (sort of reminded me of Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove) and I understand it is an anti-war book, but Vonnegut accepts the inevitability of war.

Does Vonnegut truly believe that free will does not exist? Or does he just think with regards to war there is no way out of it, (although it is horrific and terribly destructive) but in life and other things we have free will? Because although Billy Pilgrim basically exhibits no free will at all, he does exhibit free will when he decides he must tell the rest of the world of the Tralfamadorians and how free will does not exist. What is the purpose of the irony?

I know little about Vonnegut himself, but if memory serves his story Mother Night assumes free will. 119 04:24, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Nearly all of Vonnegut's novels (Timequake especially) play with the idea of free will, and they don't all come to the same conclusion. Actually, none of them come to any conclusions, and that's the whole idea. Judging from the interviews and criticism I've read, I think Vonnegut is exploring his own uncertainty rather than explicating a definite philosophy. In his later works, he does lean toward the idea that humans have some inner core of consciousness (dare I call it a soul?) and that free will is possible if we can recognize and act from that core of consciousness. The irony is that human creations (war) seem designed to squelch our soul and destroy our humanness. Thus Billy Pilgrim's dissociation. amysayrawr 14:54, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC), who is not a lit critic

Microbes

How many different speces of bacteria and viruses are known to man? davidzuccaro 05:32, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Let's get the question right first. Split the question in two since bacteria and viruses are different things. "how many species of bacteria are known to man?" and "how many types of virus are known to man?". Furthermore, bacteria and viruses are not the only type of microbe.

Right, then what do you mean by "known to man"; do you want to know the number of species of bacteria of which we have classified and looked at under a microscope, or do you want to know the number of species of bacteria that exist, many of which (probably most) are unknown? We can extrapolate a guess at an estimated number of species from discovery rates. Most of the bacteria we know grow well in a petri dish, but those that don't grow well we know less about and have to get them by PCR-ing up fragments of their DNA. But then you have to consider that no-one really knows what a species is, since bacterial sex is common between different spp and the tree of life looks more like a web as a result.

Then I don't know any figures off the top of my head, but Google might. Look especially at pages ending in .edu or .ac.uk. Dunc|☺ 19:16, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A sub-question: How can we even categorise microbes into species? They all reproduce asexually, so it doesn't make sense to talk about interbreeding. And morphology is kinda wolly... Do we count all the thousands of strains of the HIV virus as each their own species? --Fangz 22:03, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

fstab on MSYS

1. Are spaces allowed in pathnames in the fstab file in an MSYS installation?
2. Anyone here use MSYS or MinGW?
3. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Lonely and confused, Alphax ^τεχ 07:11, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

1. I think so, though you'll probably have to use quotes if there are spaces in the name. But why would you need it? Just type cd /<drive> to go to the root of the drive you need, then cd your way to the installation directory from there. You can also cd into network shares this way (cd //server/share).
2. Yes, when I need to compile C programs for more than just testing. When I just need to test something, I often use Cygwin instead.
3. I hope so. :)

--Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 18:09, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I want spaces so I can mount my "My Documents" folder (in C:\Documents and Settings\Me\My Documents) as /mydocs/. I tried creating a symlink in /home/, but that just copied the entire folder. I tried quotes and \'s in fstab, but I don't think it worked, possibly because it hadn't finished running (or something). I've thought about Cygwin before but decided it had too much bloat. Thanks anyway, Alphax ^τεχ 06:15, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The solution is to use the short 8.3 filename for directories containing spaces (C:/docume~1/...). The short name can be seen through dir /x in the Windows Command Prompt. --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 00:20, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Mary Cholmondeley: archives and manuscripts

I am interested in writing a biography of Mary Cholmondeley and I hoped you might be able to help me with an initial enquiry, having seen the biographical details on your website. What I am concerned to know at this stage is what issues there might be in quoting from letters and diaries or other copyright material. I would be most grateful for any information you could give me, and especially for contact details of the copyright holder(s) where applicable. Of course, if you could help me locate original material, that would be even better - I have consulted the 1981 research guide compiled by Jane Crisp, but there is no mention of a diary, for instance.

Many thanks!

C.O. --194.66.208.11 09:30, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, you could try asking the authors of our article on Mary Cholmondeley. If you find out anything, please update our article. Gdr 15:29, 2005 Apr 27 (UTC)

Otto Normalverbraucher - German speaker needed

Could someone please translate the part of de:Otto Normalverbraucher dealing with where he was born and his income below? Thanks, E.M. 12:11, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Erm - Otto Normalverbraucher appears to be the German version of "John Doe". So "he" wasn't born anywhere. Warofdreams 12:58, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Of course, neither was "Erika Mustermann" (E. M.), who seems to be the German Jane Doe. I think someone is having a bit of fun with the refdesk, but then again I'm just Sally Sixpack. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 13:44, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No, I understand that he wasn't born anywhere. But from a (terrible) Google translation of the page, it says that the Statistical Bureau of Germany has a specimin personality for him, with income rates and so on. Thanks, E.M. 15:27, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ah, now I understand your question. This is more of a little joke by the Statistical Bureau than anything else - "Kuhdorf", his alleged birthplace, is a generic name for a little village in the middle of nowhere, and his alleged life statistics are just the average values as reported by the Bureau. This also explains the fact that, according to the Bureau, he's employed at a rate of 67.5% :) -- Ferkelparade π 18:58, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Fuel Efficiency/Environmental Burden of Various Travel Types

I have to make a short trip this weekend, and after looking at the skyrocketing gas prices (a pittance to my friends across the pond no doubt) I started wondering, what are the relative fuel efficiencies of various types of travel (Plane, train, automobile, ship, etc)? Obviously the numbers will change depending on the different types of vehicles, relative load, and trip length, but is there some sort of overall trend? For extra credit, does fuel efficiency correlate at all to environmental burden? -- CVaneg 20:06, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Scientific American published an article that discussed this around 1975. The only cases i recall were that travel by SST is extremely efficient, and very roughly comparable to riding a bicycle, tho i don't recall which was more. Compared to either of them, walking is terribly inefficient: by several orders of magnitude, IIRC. These figures were (obviously?) based on mass moved times distance, per unit of energy (food or engine fuel) expended. Enjoy your trip. --Jerzy (t) 07:51, 2005 Apr 28 (UTC)

I remember doing this for fun on a transatlantic flight; I took the figures for max fuel load, max passengers and max range and got a passenger-miles per gallon that came out pretty similar to a car with two people in it. I'm pretty sure this is wildly inaccurate (max range is not probably at max loading, if nothing else) but it's interesting that it's not massively different.

Here is an interesting answer, which agrees quite well with what I wrote above (surprisingly). DJ Clayworth 17:42, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Also, from [27] "Boeing's first jet airliner, the 707, when flying at its optimally efficient altitude and Long Range Cruise (LRC) speed, consumed 8.9 litres of fuel per 100 kilometers per passenger, more than twice the fuel-consumption rate of the most recent Boeing and Airbus jetliners. The new A330 and A340-600 are among the top performers. According to Lufthansa spokesperson, Stefan Schaffrath, the A330-200, operating at its LRC speed and optimal altitude, uses 2.7 litres/100 km/passenger. Even the double-decker A380, to be launched in 2007 as the world's largest airliner, is forecast to consume 3.3 litres/100 km/passenger." Those last figures mean you have to have at least three people in your family sedan before it is as fuel efficient as an A330.

Here is a site comparing hybrid cars with trains. [28]

DJ Clayworth 17:42, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As noted, full planes are normally more fuel-efficient than cars over large distances. However, there's some question as to whether putting CO2 in the air at altitude causes more greenhouse effect than exhausting the same CO2 at ground level. Also, contrails, even though they're just water, may also have a significant effect. This is disputed and is a current subject of research. moink 17:44, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A beneficial effect of a silver spoon in water

From time to time I read about silver killing bacteria, silver ions killing bacteria, etc. I have seen many people placing a silver spoon in a jug of water, supposedly to kill bacteria. One of these people was actually my deceased grandmother, who was a professional chemist and rocket scientist (she worked on rocket fuel for the Soviet space program for several decades in the State Institute of Applied Chemistry). I am not saying that she was advocating the use of silver spoons though, may be she just thought it would do no harm to try.

So I am wondering if there are actually any biological effects (i.e. does a piece of silver in a jug of water kill bacteria) and if there are, do these translate into health benefits.

I found a lot of information on the web about dangers and questionable efficacy of colloidal silver, but nothing on silver per se.

I would appreciate any light you can shed on this matter.

You are referring to colloidal silver, a long time, usually harmless form of folk medicine with no proven efficacy for any specific condition. Harm in the form of enough silver deposition in the skin to turn it dark (called argyria) can occur from really excessive ingestion or from highly concentrated silver solutions, but most "colloidal silver suspensions" don't have enough to do anything at all, good or bad.

Far more beneficial to your health than a silver spoon in a glass of water is to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth. alteripse 22:05, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

According to the Silver article, silver has germicidal effects and kills many microbial organisms in vitro. Silver is used in some swimming pools against bacteria by causing them to oxidize when whey come in contact with it. However, the article cautions that actually swallowing the stuff can be harmful. I don't know whether the germicidal effects are such that a silver spoon in a jug would have any effects. — Asbestos | Talk 22:28, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Longest Straight Distances within Countries

A debate on the Chile Talk page has got me thinking. Where would I go to find a list of the longest straight as-the-crow-flies distances between the borders of any given country? For example, the claim about Chile being the longest N-S country in the world is not correct as it stands, since most such journeys would have you exiting the border well before you got to the bottom of the country. But there must be a straight-line journey that a crow could fly entirely within the borders of Chile that is longer than any other such journey in that country. Same for any other country one cares to name. What are the details, and where is the list? Cheers JackofOz 23:24, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Careful, it sounds like you may be failing to distinguish between length of a due-south route, and N/S component of a different straight line. And i don't think the article implies anything but the end points staying inside, and perhaps (implicitly) staying inside a portion of the country that is contiguous (more or less: Germany would be considered contiguous despite being split by the Rhein, so who says the Strait of Magellan is too wide?).

BTW, confession of original research: i debunked the Russia article by measuring with my fingers on an icosahedral world globe. (Its most widely separated points, in time zones, are much closer than its most widely separated points in distance along a great circle.)

--Jerzy (t) 08:12, 2005 Apr 28 (UTC)

Now I'm confused.

• Can N-S mean anything other than N-S? It's one thing to talk of a straight line that is more-or-less north-south oriented, and another thing to talk of one that is exactly N-S.
• What do you mean by the "N/S component of a different straight line". A straight line is straight, so no part of it can be pointing in a different direction than any other part of it. It has no "components" that are in any way different from any other "components", apart perhaps from their length. Am I missing something fundamental here?
• Anyway, this is not related to the information I am after. Perhaps I didn't explain myself. Take any country, Slovakia, for example. There has to be a straight-line journey bounded by the borders of Slovakia that is longer than any other journey bounded by the borders of Slovakia. Ditto for every other country. One or two might just happen to be N-S, or E-W, but in general they could be in any orientation at all. Has anybody ever worked out the longest straight-line journeys for all the countries in the world? JackofOz 06:18, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Patent filers for pre-1976 patents

The US Patent Office has a nifty online search engine which will let you search any patents filed since 1976 in fulltext and anything before 1976 by their patent number. But surely there are ways to search for patents before 1976 without knowing their patent number -- how else would patent clerks be able to navigate through the millions of prior patents when doing research on prior art? So my question is, how do they do it? And more to my specific need: if I have the name of someone who was awarded a patent in a pre-1976 period, how would I go about looking up the patent number of it in a systematic and simple way? Thanks if you know. --Fastfission 04:21, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If I need any pre-1976 patent information, I usually google for its patent number. This is a pretty lousy method. Some paid patent databases, such as Derwent's U.S. Patents Full-Text (http://www.derwent.com/), also does not carry pre-1976 information. If you ever heard about the "phantom time hypothesis", you'll know years from 1790 to 1975 did not exist in the searchable history of U.S. patents.

• http://www.delphion.com/whatsnew
• http://www.delphion.com/collect_descrip

Delphion contains some early 1970s (1971-present) patents. I did not use it very often. -- Toytoy 06:08, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Follow up: I found a workaround. The engine used by the UK Patent Office contains a ton (perhaps all?) pre-1976 US patents with at least their titles and inventors (and US patent numbers). This speeds things up considerably. Their interface is awful, but once one has the patent number, you can plug it into the USPTO page. Whose interface is also awful. New question: Why is it that all official patent sites have awful interfaces that force you to download patents one page at a time in difficult to use formats? --Fastfission 03:27, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Gun copyright / trademark issues to know?

What are possible legal implications of using modern gun models in a videogame (freeware or otherwise)? As much as you see real-life models in many other computer games out there, I'm still pretty sure that gun models/designs and their respective names are likely copyrighted and trademarked by their makers, just like other assembled industrial products such as automobiles -- although I don't know for certain. As much as I don't see trademark notices or "used with permission" in the credits of games which feature real-life guns, is it still a potential (even if unlikely) source of a lawsuit from a gun manufacturer trying to protect their intellectual property? If I create, for example, a Counterstrike clone featuring some more recent models of civilian and military firearms, could I be sued for copyright infringement or something trademark-related, just as a videogame company that makes a racing game featuring a popular brand of car without getting the car company's permission can potentially be sued by the car maker? Basically, is it legally "safe" to include a trademark weapon with its intact design in a videogame? Have any such lawsuits happened before against a videogame company? --I am not good at running 05:16, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Transport Tycoon used real names for all the vehicles, but its sequel Transport Tycoon Deluxe (covered on the same article) used made up names (e.g. Airbus became Airtaxi). This was apparently due to the fact that US lawyers were concerned that if a Boeing 747 crashed in the game, that Boeing could sue the makers over it. Because of the scale, similarity of design wasn't an issue. I don't know how relevant this is to you, but its my only knowledge of the issue. Thryduulf 07:06, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

That reminds me of the development of Gran Turismo titles; when they license use of vehicles with the automobile companies, there's usually legal quabblings over accuracy of simulation. Yet they also have always had problems implementing crash physics over those same legal quabblings. So basically cars don't crash, crinkle, crumble, or bust at all in those games, even if you hit a brick wall at 200mph, because some of the car companies are concerned about their image or whatever. --I am not good at running 10:35, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If you use the recognizable image of anybody's unique design of anything without their permission, you run the risk of them acting to protect their rights to that design. The test is whether a reasonable person would consider that you have caused them damage. Damage is not entirely financial; distress is another form, for example. Because misuse of a firearm has the potential to damage a manufacturer's reputation, their manufacturers are likely to be much more alert to such infringements than, say, a lawnmower manufacturer. The question to ask yourself is: Is there any way that the manufacturer of this firearm may consider themselves to be damaged by this use of its image or name? If you think that they may see potential damage, you would be best advised to take a close look at the risk that you run: specifically, the probability that the manufacturer will act against you and your potential loss arising from such action. Were I you, I would ask permission and expect refusal. --Theo (Talk) 10:58, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

So do you think it's likely that the makers of Grand Theft Auto had to get permission, considering that the politically-leftist anti-gun crowd tends to point to such games as a (lame) example of what's "wrong" with gun ownership or the products themselves, and the character uses the weapons in a way that could (in a lawyer's eyes probably) misrepresent the intended use of such weapons? One other thing I thought about is, many government-created, government-licensed works funded by tax dollars are in the public domain; almost everything NASA releases from photographs taken by tax-funded technology (Hubble Space Telescope for example) is put in the public domain, as are de-classified computer algorithms developed by the military, etc. The government essentially does not copyright anything except for official seals and logos for their bureaus, and anything released by them that isn't secret is public domain. Is this based around some sort of national legal principle which would also apply to firearm designs that are developed under our tax dollars, or are there exceptions to this rule? --I am not good at running 18:43, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As a politically leftist nut myself, I'd like to point out that the arguments for gun control and against videogame violence are usually separate, and not lumped together into one issue (At least not in the US). Videogame violence is usually framed as an issue for protecting children while gun control is framed as an issue for protecting the general populace, but I'm getting off topic. GTA does not need to license any of the guns or cars in the game since they are not exact duplicates of specific makes or models. Regarding the work of the United States Government, just about everything produced by employees of the federal government is public domain, however, the vast majority of weapons design and manufacture in the US is done by private defense contractors, since they are not direct employees of the federal government, I would imagine that the eventual trademark holder would be dependent on how the defense contract was written (The government can have trademarks transferred to it, even though it cannot produced trademarked works itself).-- CVaneg 19:57, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I guess that DMA Design analysed the risk and decided not to request permission to use specific guns in Grand Theft Auto. I do not know who owns the copyrights to the firearms used by the US Armed Forces. --Theo (Talk) 22:56, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Symphony with bagpipe?

Does anyone know the composer and title of a symphony that features a bagpipe in its final movement? I remember I was at a university orchestra concert once when this piece was performed. In the final movement a spotlight shone on the bagpiper, who was dressed in full regalia. It was quite a treat. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 13:20, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Are you sure it was a symphony? There is a famous piece by Peter Maxwell Davies (Orkney Wedding, with Sunrise) for orchestra, which ends, if I recall correctly, with a rousing bagpipe solo. This could be it. It's a great crowd-pleaser. Antandrus 14:54, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I thought it was a multi-movement work but after reading about this piece on the web, I am sure this is it. Thank you Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 15:57, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)