Talk:Workers' Party of Korea

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Section sizes

Section size for Workers' Party of Korea (34 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	7,873	7,873
History	61	22,132
Founding and early years (1945–1953)	4,521	4,521
Kim Il Sung's consolidation of power (1953–1980)	6,880	6,880
Kim Jong Il's rule (1980–2011)	6,898	6,898
Kim Jong Un's rule (2011–present)	3,772	3,772
Ideology	1,231	1,645
Juche	32	319
Relationship to Marxism–Leninism	186	186
Basic tenets	101	101
Nationalism	95	95
Governance	16	8,359
Great Leader	3,194	4,926
Kim dynasty	1,732	1,732
Monolithic Ideological System	666	666
Songbun	2,751	2,751
Organization	18	7,094
Central organization	4,441	4,441
Lower-level organization	2,635	2,635
Symbols	588	588
Electoral history	25	2,216
Supreme People's Assembly elections	2,191	2,191
See also	194	194
Notes	46	46
References	16	22,008
Citations	29	29
Sources	17	21,963
Books	6,316	6,316
Journal articles	3,695	3,695
Government publications	1,182	1,182
News and magazine articles	8,132	8,132
Websites	2,621	2,621
Further reading	379	379
External links	1,562	1,562
Total	74,096	74,096

Archives

Archive 1 (Mar. 2004 – Jun. 2004)
Archive 2 (Nov. 2004 – May 2022)
Archive 3 (Jun. 2022 – present)

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The WPK's critics are given undue weight in the infobox

Seth's, Myers', and Suh's analyses and critiques were made in 2019, 2011, and 1988, respectively. Kim Jong Un changed the WPK's ideological direction in 2021. Irregardless, it seems odd to give those two particular critiques (that the WPK has "little in common with communism" and is "far-right") prominence in the infobox as no other article of a major political party does this. Myers also argues that the WPK has no ideology at all and is just a medium through which the Kim family expresses its cult of personality. Other scholars like American historian Derek R. Ford meanwhile argue that there is a continuity between WPK's ideology and Marxism-Leninism, so why is his opinion not messily cited? Myers' opinion, particularly his book The Cleanest Race, is widely cited or mentioned by academics and non-academic authors alike in news and magazine articles, but his opinion is by no means widely accepted by his peers. Yue🌙 04:01, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely agree. Have removed these from infobox. Zilch-nada (talk) 17:36, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I support the removal.--Jack Upland (talk) 03:58, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure I agree. A view shared by three separate scholars absolutely is prominent enough to at least warrant a mention in a footnote. You ask "why is [Ford's] opinion ["that there is a continuity between WPK's ideology and Marxism-Leninism"] not messily cited" but, as shown by the fact that the infobox denotes the WPK's ideology as "far-left" and lists "communism" as one of its ideologies, this opinion is not only cited but is also given full prominence. Loytra (talk) 05:54, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no common view shared by all three authors. Seth argues the party is primarily nationalist, Myers argues that the party has no ideology at all and borrowed its rhetoric from Japanese fascism, and Suh argues that the WPK had moved away from communism. To reiterate, these analyses and arguments were made in 2019, 2011, and 1988 respectively, before Kim Jong Un made it clear in 2021 that the WPK would recommit itself to communism. The previous notes attempt to combine three very different sets of analyses into one view, which is not what any of the three authors hold or held.

It is true that the far-left label was readded without the single citation that it had beforehand; I would not oppose its temporary removal until reliable sources are added for it. The communist label, however, is not unsourced or unmentioned in the article. This frequent desire to readd an asterisk to the infobox reflects a lack of knowledge of current WPK policies and relies on the misconstruing of analyses based on outdated information. Yue🌙 06:52, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]