Talk:Chittagong

This article is written in Bangladeshi English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analyse, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Chittagong was nominated as a Geography and places good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (October 10, 2015). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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On 28 August 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Chattogram. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Archives

1

GOCE copy edit

On 2015 June 19, the user 114.134.89.21 requested a GOCE copy edit of this article. I just completed the copy edit, and posted a few things that should be attended to before this page is nominated as a GA on the requester's talk page. However, the user is currently under a three month ban ending on 2015 August 19. In the meantime, I am posting my comments below, and if they are attended to anyone should feel free to begin a GA nomination.

I have just finished copyediting the Chittagong article, as per your GOCE request. A few comments so far:
I removed the "Early History" subheading of the History section, as there were no other subheadings and your use of "early" covered the entire known history of the city. If you want to use subheadings, divide the section up further.

In the History section there is a sentence beginning "Two years later, the Court of Directors..." Please clarify what Court of Directors you refer to. I presume you meant the Court of Directors of the British East India Company, but I will leave that to you to clarify.

In the History section, regarding World War II, you write that the war resulted in an "unevenness in fortune". Please clarify this phrase.

In the History section there is a sentence beginning "The first public announcement was made..." Please clarify what this was a public announcement of, as the sentence is meaningless otherwise.

In the Administration section there is a reference to "the city's master plan." Please clarify what this plan is.

In the Demographics section there is a reference to "A study conducted by CUS in 2005". Please expand this acronym into its full name or link the acronym to a Wikipedia page of the organization.

In the Media section there is a sentence that reads "Nearly all televisions and radios in Bangladesh have coverage in Chittagong." Please explain what this coverage is.
With these suggestions in mind, you should be good to go for a GA nomination. Good luck! Hampton11235 (talk) 18:15, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Chittagong/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Dongar Kathorekar (talk · contribs) 19:41, 7 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

1st comment

The etymology and history section have each one citation required template for asserted statement. The Culture section and Sports section require more citations.

Attention nominator

@Ibrahim Husain Meraj: you have nominated this article for GA. You have made 11 edits to this article which is just 0.35% of edits made in this article. Your largest edit has been to fill up references using a semi-automatic tool. According to Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Instructions, "Nominators who are not significant contributors to the article should consult regular editors of the article prior to a nomination." Have you done this? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 08:51, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am closing this GA review as a fail, because the reviewer did not conduct a proper GA review, and per the issues pointed out by Dharmadhyaksha. sst ✈ 16:13, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Banglapedia's language claim?

"This diverse history is reflected in the rural Chittagonian dialect of Bengali, which has a nearly 50% Arabic-origin vocabulary, as well as Persian and Portuguese loanwords.[7]"

I've checked the citation given and it only acknowledges it in a small passing mention. Is it reliable? Because I am very doubtful, especially as I have some family living in Chittagong. It may have been a personal interpretation of the author rather than an actual academic one. In my experience, it is more a dialect of Bengali with the pronunciation and spelling of words changed around. But to say that 50% of the origins is not from Bengali is unbelieveable. Is it possible for someone to get a source? Otherwise this should be deleted.

203.202.246.43 (talk) 18:26, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Article name change

The naming authority, Government of the People's Republic of Bangladesh changed the official name of the "Chittagong" to "Chattogram" today to make the spelling similar to Bangla pronunciation.
Reference: <http://www.banglanews24.com/national/news/bd/645645.details>, <https://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2018/04/02/bangladesh-changes-english-spellings-of-five-districts>

Hence the article's name has changed to the new one. — T. 11:08, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 5 April 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: reverted to stable title. Please note that this sort of request can be handled through WP:RMTR. If there is a need to discuss a move to Chattogram, please initiate a new request instead of moving the page again without discussion. Dekimasuよ! 02:56, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Chattogram → Chittagong – The page was recently moved to Chattogram without a RM. In general, pages for renamed cities are not moved until reliable sources routinely use the new name; for example Bangalore and Barrow, Alaska. This change is significantly more substantial than the other four recent changes [1], and is of a more-prominent location. power~enwiki (π, ν) 00:47, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support The name was literally changed just now, it has to pass into common usage before the name is changed per WP:COMMONNAME._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 01:21, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support for procedural reasons (to undo an undiscussed controversial move) and on the merits per User:power~enwiki and User:Zxcvbnm. — AjaxSmack 01:45, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Placename changes and Wikipedia policy

Please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bangladesh#Placename changes and Wikipedia policy before moving to a new title. --Worldbruce (talk) 05:35, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Portal:Chittagong for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Chittagong is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Chittagong until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 05:54, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Changing the name to Chattogram

The is now officially Chattogram. So aren't we changing it Wikipedia too. Besides the original name was actually Chattogram. M. Ishmam Abdullah (talk) 04:28, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The spelling "Chattogram" is gradually gaining acceptance. If that continues, Wikipedia will eventually adopt it. Wikipedia is in no rush, however, for the reasons outlined at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bangladesh#Placename changes and Wikipedia policy. As of December 2018, one major English-language daily newspaper had started using Chattogram, while another stuck with Chittagong. Government websites are using Chattogram more consistently now, but it still appears both ways on pages of the Bangladesh Navy, to give but one example. Uptake has probably been slower outside of Bangladesh, as suggested by the Google Ngram Viewer of books through 2019.[2] Both Banglapedia: The National Encyclopedia of Bangladesh and Encyclopædia Britannica still use Chittagong.[3][4] Be patient, see what happens. --Worldbruce (talk) 05:09, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology

I was having a cursory look at Barua_(Bangladesh) and noted the mention of a credible etymology Chaityagrama (চৈত্য গ্রাম) there Barua_(Bangladesh)#cite_ref-4 which somehow has been missed in this main article. "Chittagong was formerly known as "Chaityagrama" or "town with Buddhist shrines". This main Chittagong article has an etymology section and even a separate article on it neither mentions it!

Chaitya (চৈট্ট নয় চৈত্য) indeed is a type of buddhist shrine, and end of the same etymology section of Chittagong briefly lists alternative names that include Chaityabhumi (চৈত্য ভূমি) which makes perfect sense. Please also note that there is no Bengali page corresponding of the main Chaitya (চৈত্য) article in our Bengali wikipedia so far. Request others to please make one soon--Dr.saptarshi (talk) 21:01, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bangladesh doctor

Bangladesh doctor that is rich 105.113.10.66 (talk) 15:52, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article Title

Chittagong ❌
Chattogram ✓
Chittagong is now Chattogram as Bangladesh revises English spellings[5][6][7][8] ~ @Worldbruce@Therealbey @ইউনুছ মিঞা BadhonCR (talk) 16:06, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BadhonCR: The government of Bangladesh may decide how the government of Bangladesh will spell place names. That has influence, but no control, over how the English language spells place names.

Wikipedia is not part of the government of Bangladesh. What they consider correct is not necessarily what is correct here. Wikipedia may eventually adopt the new spellings, but only if and when those spellings become the most common ones throughout the English-speaking world.

The revised spelling is gradually gaining acceptance. If that continues, Wikipedia will eventually adopt it. Wikipedia is in no rush, however, for the reasons outlined at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bangladesh/Archive 7#Placename changes and Wikipedia policy. Note that both Banglapedia: The National Encyclopedia of Bangladesh and Encyclopædia Britannica still use Chittagong.[9][10]. --Worldbruce (talk) 16:51, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you have a misunderstanding it was the official name since Bangladesh was. You have to check the official website of the government. It was not a new name or changed recently by government it was always there Just people used Chittagong The name was given by British East India Company but The people's Republic of Bangladesh after its creation restored it to Chattogram Therealbey (talk) 17:20, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Therealbey: No, it has not been the official spelling since 1971. It has been the official spelling since 2018, as shown by the sources BadhonCR cited above. So what? The government of Bangladesh doesn't dictate what is correct here. Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bangladesh/Archive 7#Placename changes and Wikipedia policy to understand why Wikipedia uses the spellings it does. If you have evidence that the circumstances on which the original consensus was formed have changed, present it, and seek a new consensus. Continuing to edit war against consensus may result in the loss of editing privileges. --Worldbruce (talk) 17:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Worldbruce Check the spelling on the official website Bangladesh National Portal. [11] -- BadhonCR (talk) 20:20, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://chittagong.gov.bd/ go here and click on English language . Don't check the domain URL cuz it was the old URL still using it is not updated but website is updated kindly check the English version of the national portal by selecting language. And I am from there Bangladesh I know it was changed in 2018 April (Division and district) Therealbey (talk) 22:02, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that "Chattogram" is the official name. That has never been in question.

Therealbey wrote on their talk page: Wikipedia should be updated from the Acts of official government. That is not true; that fundamentally misunderstands what this encyclopedia is and how it works. Numerous examples demonstrate this. The Turkish government decrees that their country name should be spelled Türkiye, but Wikipedia spells it Turkey. See explanatory essay WP:OFFICIAL to understand why.

Policy Wikipedia:Article titles states under WP:COMMONNAME:

Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's official name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources).

Wikipedia uses the spelling "Chittagong" because it is the most commonly used one. Since the official spelling was changed six years ago, "Chattogram" has gradually gained ground. Someday it may become the most commonly used spelling. Anyone who believes it is now the most commonly used spelling is welcome to make that argument and seek a new consensus (but please stop harping on "official", that is a straw man argument).

Guideline Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) explains in depth how to choose among names, including an entire section on establishing a widely accepted name. A few quick observations:

Both Banglapedia: The National Encyclopedia of Bangladesh and Encyclopædia Britannica still use Chittagong.[12][13].
A new edition of the Times Atlas of the World was published in 2023. If you like, I can try to get hold of a copy and see what it says.
The National Geographic Society's May 2020 map, "Asia's Vital Rivers", their most recent one I could find on which the city appears, uses Chittagong.

--Worldbruce (talk) 00:24, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The word Chattogram was used by along with Chittagong Just government updated 6 years ago it doesn't mean it is a new name given by government. The name has both commonly used and government side . Still I know that most people use the word Chittagong but if allahabad changed by Indian to Prayagraj in 16 October 2018 why it is accepted by Wikipedia also the word prayagraj doesn't used by I think any people everyone still use the word Allahabad Therealbey (talk) 06:33, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many transliterations have been used. Google ngram viewer is of limited value for various reasons, but can give one an idea of just how uncommon all but Chittagong were. I wasn't involved in discussions of the move from Allahabad to Prayagraj. For years consensus was against moving, then last year someone made a persuasive case that the English-speaking world at large now uses Prayagraj as the common name, and after a fairly broad discussion, a new consensus emerged. --Worldbruce (talk) 07:26, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

no sir the people still use the word Allahabad you can see on social media and in the other states of India it refers as Allahabad Therealbey (talk) 20:02, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See which spelling is more popular on google trends.[14] -- BadhonCR (talk) 21:18, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Moving from Chittagong to Chattogram

I'm moving the page from Chittagong to Chattogram as it is the official name by the government of Bangladesh and also locally used most and according to Google trends Chattogram is the most used name. I am moving according to WP:COMMONNAME Therealbey (talk) 00:20, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Therealbey: The answer I've given at Talk:Chittagong Division#Move to Chattogram Division also applies here. --Worldbruce (talk) 15:35, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Start a formal requested move for such a controversial move, if you believe there is sufficient evidence not present in a previous RM to support a move. We don't use WP:OFFICIALNAMES just because, but if you have new evidence of a change to the WP:COMMONNAME then that should be a stronger RM proposal. Dank Jae 18:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 28 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 16:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chittagong → Chattogram – move the page from Chittagong to Chattogram as it is the official name by the government of Bangladesh and also locally used most and according to Google trends Chattogram is the most used name. Move is according to WP:COMMONNAME Therealbey (talk) 00:48, 24 August 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). ASUKITE 15:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that the above is the rationale given by a nom at WP:RM/TR and not my own, who has since been blocked and will not be able to participate. I don't have a strong opnion for or against this move at the moment. Despite that, having read the above discussions on this page, I feel there may be valid arguments to move this page and that a discussion would benefit the project. (Having seen the google trends report given in an above discussion, it looks like a valid argument could be made that the name "Chattogram" has taken to some degree, even if the lead is smaller when I check the results in English-speaking countries.) (To the closer: I doubt this will be the case, but if there is no participation, this should probably be closed as "no consensus") ASUKITE 15:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Bangladesh and WikiProject Cities have been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 15:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Google Trends can provide insight into general trends in search terms, but that is not how Wikipedia determines a topic's WP:COMMONNAME. To quote the policy, it is "as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources." Search engine queries are not independent reliable sources.

Moreover, the Google Trends link provided above is deceptive. It compares a search term with a topic, two things which Google says are measured differently. If one makes an apples-to-apples comparison of the two names as search terms, Chittagong is the far more common one.

Chattogram is the WP:OFFICIALNAME, but the proposer has provided zero evidence that it is the common name (or even the common search term locally - 90% of searches within Bangladesh are for Chittagong). For prior discussion, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bangladesh/Archive 7#Placename changes and Wikipedia policy. --Worldbruce (talk) 16:07, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the info on Google trends, I wasn't aware I was using it wrong this entire time, and your link makes it much clearer for me. I am still unsure if I should have opened this, but if anything it will help solidify the title and give us something to point to when somebody inevitably tries to change the title again. ASUKITE 16:43, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Still the clear WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:35, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.