Talk:Gustav Vasa

Untitled

Is there a link to a narrative here? I'm a bit new to Wikipedia so I'm not sure. If not, I can probably expand the article given time to collect some materials. Let me know. Simon George — Preceding undated comment added 16:53, 28 June 2003 (UTC)

Forget what I just said. I've found a good link to modern Swedish history from this page. Thanks Simon — Preceding unsigned comment added by Simon George (talk • contribs) 16:55, 28 June 2003 (UTC)

I am not sure Gustav was succeeded by his son John in Finland. Even if John was duke in Finland, it still belonged to Sweden and the Swedish king, John´s brother Erik XIV. Dan Koehl 09:18 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)

The king's primarily known as Gustav Vasa. BL 19:50, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)

Yes, but wasn't the former name of the article ("Gustav I of Sweden") in accordance with some Wikipolicy on names on monarchs? /Tuomas 12:20, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This should be under Gustav I of Sweden - all other variants (including Gustav Vasa) should be taken care of with redirs. 62.78.106.159 21:07, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yea yea yea... Todo

• Mentioning all the events that the images in the gallery depict. --Fred-Chess July 1, 2005 14:14 (UTC)

Divergent versions of Nils Dacke's end

I find several Wikipedia pages giving rather divergent versions of the same events. Can somebody with a good knowlege of Swedish history try to harmonise them a bit?

Page: Nils Dacke

After this defeat the rebellion was all but over and Dacke became an outlaw. He was shot and killed in 1543 on the border between the two nowadays southern Swedish provinces Sm?land and Blekinge, then a border between Sweden and Denmark, while trying to escape from the king's mercenaries. Even though Dacke was not executed, his body was dismembered and the parts were sent for public display in larger communities that had supported him during the rebellion. Gustav Vasa ordered the annihilation of Dacke's entire family, but was milder against those who had given themselves up. Thus, the unity of the realm was restored.

Page: Dacke War

Dacke's forces were beaten and Dacke himself was wounded. The same year in August he was surrounded and shot in R?dby in Blekinge. Gustav Vasa carried through harsh punishments for the uprising. Dacke's home district was plundered and all his family members were executed or deported.

Page: Gustav I of Sweden

Nils was eventually betrayed by his own relatives, caught, and quartered; it is said that his body parts were displayed througout Sweden as a warning to other would-be rebels.

Page: Smaland

Dacke himself was shot while trying to escape to then-Danish Blekinge. Adam Keller 21:37, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

• • I'll take a look; the standard version in Swedish sources is that he recovered a bit from the leg wounds (enough to walk with some ease?) but the battle broke his army and he was unble to regain momentum; he is supposed to have been killed, maybe betrayed and ambushed, while trying to cross over into Blekinge in July/August 1543. Moving through the woods on crutches, btw, would have been almost undoable in those days; back then we're talking of very rough forests with boulders, fallen over trees, many lakes and streams and few proper paths (they have been a bit cleared since). Strausszek 23:00, 26 November 2008 (CET)

The aid from the Hansa?

I thought that one of the resons for lutheranizing Sweden was to be able to confiscate all church bells which were melted down as payment for the Hansa's aid in defeating the Danes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jienz (talk • contribs) 15:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

His real name

Respect the native form of his name, Gösta Jerksson. Since he was born in the Old Swedish speaking period, I have also added the normalized Old Norse version of the name, Gautstafr Eiríksson. (This seems to be done for other Swedish kings of the period, e.g. for Birger Brosa, Old Norse Birgir Brósa.) Of course, I put these two names within parantheses in the head of the article. // Jens Persson (193.10.116.24 13:18, 11 September 2007 (UTC))

Do you have any source using either of these two forms of his name? Olaus 20:13, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I removed the Old Norse version, it's not relevant. Not sure what you mean with the reference to Birger Brosa and "other Swedish kings of the period". Birger Brosa and Gustav Vasa belong to two entirely separate periods, about 350 years between them. Surely you wouldn't argue that Olof Palme and Gustaf II Adolf belong to the same period?? The time between them is about the same... Old Norse was still in use when Birger Brosa was alive, not so when Gustav Vasa lived. JdeJ 10:08, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

This is nonsense. Gustav Wasa never used Old Norse. Birger Brosa and Gustav Wasa belong to two very different periodes - Elizabeth I and William the Conqueror... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.209.222.107 (talk) 09:10, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

This article sucks and should be rewritten in it's whole. It is as if a neonazi 6th grader wrote it... Stuff like this makes me sick. (Darioist (talk) 06:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC))

Suggested Changes: Second and third paragraph under Early Life not in chronological order. It would also be a good idea to group all the legends pertaining under one headline. And how about some footnotes? //Paul — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.253.61.93 (talk) 18:55, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to improve it / rewrite it any way.

6th grader neo-nazi Fred-J 21:08, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I get confused when Iam comparing this english article to the one in swedish. How was Gustav Vasa taken as a prisoner bu the danish? When I read this article it seems he was taken as a prisoner in a battle, when I read the swedish that he his left over by the swedes to the danish as a hostage. Can someone correct this and make it more clear how it happend? Awakened82 (talk) 16:29, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Odd phrasing?

Explain to me how a hereditary monarchy can "continue to date" when the Bernadotte family has no connection to the Vasa? DW75 (talk) 22:22, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

The first Bernadotte king wad adopted by the last Oldenburg king, the crown passing from the latter to the former directly and without vacancy. I suppose that's it. Surtsicna (talk) 22:46, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

It's more of a constitutional question. When the Vasa's were going extinct, the government chose the Wittelsbach's to succeed. When they went extinct they chose the Oldenburg's, and when they went extinct Bernadotte was adopted.

Thus, the current king does descend from Gustav I through female lines which were chosen - actually Carl XVI Gustaf descends from as far back as Eric the Victorious and most of the other Swedish kings as well. SergeWoodzing (talk) 00:38, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

And you know this from ??? Stupidity , Serge ! For instance Charles XII died with no children, his sister became Queen and Monarch, but gave the title away to her husband. Later Russia chose a new bloodline, extinguished after Charles XIII. All we know of Jean-Pierre Bernadotte, is that he was a Napoleon Field Marshal, coming from Pau, southernmost France. His father was perhaps a lawyer. He was chosen by Mörner as a French Field Marshal and elected Crown Prince at Örebro Riksdag. Boeing720 (talk) 22:53, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Olaus Petri

Please see my note in the talk page for Olaus Petri, whose article I revised today and tried to conform with this one (but don't have time to do more). He and Laurentius Andreae received death sentences in January 1540, which were commuted two years later, but this article doesn't mention either that assassination attempt, conspiracy or kerfuffle. Jweaver28 (talk) 21:59, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Gallery

Gustav Triumph copies attributed to J Wendelius (1722), Verket finns på Kungliga Biblioteket. Mjjolley (talk) 20:34, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

References

Move to "Gustav Vasa"

MOVE to Gustav Vasa
This King is simply known as "Gustav Vasa" in all Swedish history books and encyclopedias. Doubt very much he was much known outside of Scandinavia. Boeing720 (talk) 22:43, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Naval aspects

It seems strange that this article makes absolutely no mention of the naval aspects of the campaign that brought Gustav Vasa to power. A key ingredient of the help that came from Lubeck was a fleet of ships. These were state of the art vessels (at a time of rapidly developing maritime technology) and were instrumental in, for instance, the blockading of Stockholm in the winter of 1522-23, so allowing capture of the city.

A useful summary of the history, from a naval point of view, is in the historical preamble to a paper on the investigation of the wreck of one of the ships in this navy This and other sources may be useful in righting the deficit.

I am putting the a very similar comment on Talk:Swedish War of Liberation ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 15:09, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

References

Requested move 18 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lightoil (talk) 19:20, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

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Gustav I of Sweden → Gustav Vasa – Gustav Vasa is by far the most commonly used name for "Gustav I", with most other mentions of him on Wikipedia already using it, including the Swedish page. PeenikePorgand (talk) 14:45, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

PeenikePorgand, could you please provide some evidence for your argument? I am ready to support the common name but it is not as clear cut in this case as it often is. In any case "of Sweden" is not needed; compare with Carl XVI Gustaf, Gustaf V, etc. Surtsicna (talk) 15:09, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Here's the statistics from Google Ngram viewer: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Gustav+Vasa%2CGustav+I&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3#

As you can see, Gustav Vasa is more widely used than Gustav I by a wide margin

Google Trends seems to show them at about the same popularity, but with the spike around summer (500 year anniversary of him being crowned king) only appling to "Gustav Vasa", I would guess that a lot searches for "Gustav I" are unrelated. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Gustav%20I,Gustav%20Vasa&hl=en-US PeenikePorgand (talk) 15:25, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

That is certainly convincing. I support this proposal. Surtsicna (talk) 16:20, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support - While I generally prefer "[Monarch] # of [Country]", this is a clear situation where point 2 of WP:SOVEREIGNS applies, much like Gustavus Adolphus. estar8806 (talk) ★ 20:27, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:05, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support He’s more commonly known as Gustav Vasa. ✠ Robertus Pius ✠ (Talk • Contribs) 16:06, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose (1) Vasa was not his surname; (2) he never used that name; (3) no indication in the article name that he was a monarch or anyone more significant that Joe Schmoe. These 3 facts should overide commonname. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:18, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

None of those are recognized exceptions to our policy of using the most common English name for the article title. But I will point out that "of Sweden" was also not his surname, he never used the name "Gustav I of Sweden", and the first sentence of the article and the infobox clearly states that he was King of Sweden, and the fact that he has a Wikipedia article indicates that he is more significant than Joe Schmoe. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:37, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

It is not clear that his most common name in English is Gustav Vasa. Swedish literature is included in the survey. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 20:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

The Google Ngrams, which only uses English-language sources, clearly shows that "Gustav Vasa" is much more common than "Gustav I". Rreagan007 (talk) 21:56, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support per Surtsicna, estar8806, Rreagan007 and Robertus Pius. Gustav Vasa is indeed the WP:COMMONNAME. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:09, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support per other supportive editors. Killuminator (talk) 12:05, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
• Question When this gets moved by consensus, how many of you supporters will keep an eye on the article to prevent users not familiar with the name form from calling him "Vasa" as if it was a surname? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:15, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

  Don't think this will be an issue, as he's known as "Gustav Eriksson" in multiple places in the article already, with a mix of Gustav I and Gustav Vasa when it isn't about his life before he became king. PeenikePorgand (talk) 19:24, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.