Talk:Arnold Toynbee (historian, born 1852)

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Untitled

The guy there looks a lot older than 30.

For future reference, here's another link:

[1]

Don't know what the copyright position on that is though.

"Thermonuclear extinction"...

How utterly considerate of User:69.138.185.228 to provide a warning of "thermonuclear extinction" vintage 1971 from someone who died in 1884. Maybe we should make "read the article before editing" an official policy... --Thorsten1 23:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Link for the "Lectures ..."?

The McMaster site is no longer available as a source for the text of the lectures. I've not been able to uncover an alternative source. Perhaps someone else will have better luck. User:Noisy | Talk 12:23, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Contradictions on his spouse?

The "Life and Career" section states "He married Charlotte Atwood, 12 years his senior and a cousin of Harold Davidson, the famous rector of Stiffkey."

However, the "Toynbee genealogy" section indicates that Toynbee married a Rosalind Murray.

An entry for Arnold Toynbee (b.1852 d. 1883) from the Dictionary of National Biography (hosted at Wikisource)^[1] does name Atwood, saying they married in June 1879.

I think the issue here is uncle-nephew confusion, compounded by English naming habits and Wiki formatting. Since the name "Arnold J. Toynbee" is boldfaced in the genealogy section, even though the article is about the uncle Arnold Toynbee (not Arnold J), its easy to get confused as to who the article is about.

While I was at it, I went ahead and verified Arnold J. Toynbee's spouse. Quick research seems to indicate that a Toynbee did in fact marry Murray. A NYTimes review (published 28 May 1989 and available online^[2]) of Willy McNeil's biography of Toynbee (ARNOLD J. TOYNBEE. A Life) names Murray as the wife of Toynbee. Of course, the Toynbee that Ms. Murray wed is Alfred JOSEPH Toynbee (b.1889 d.1975).

In light of this, I will edit the page to make the correct name boldfaced, per Wiki standards and conventions

Unclebanglin (talk) 17:20, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

Requested move 11 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Arnold Toynbee (historian, born 1852). Links must be disambiguated before considering a change to a new primary topic. – wbm1058 (talk) 16:00, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Arnold Toynbee → Arnold Toynbee (economic historian) – This topic is not PRIMARY for "Arnold Toynbee", as the more famous Arnold J. Toynbee is often referred to without the middle initial (for example, his NYT obituary[2]). Searching Google Scholar, books, or regular search brings up more references to the work of the other Toynbee than this one. Arnold Toynbee should be a dab page listing both. Alternately, I'd also support moving this page to Arnold Toynbee (historian, born 1852). (t · c) buidhe 08:51, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Move primary to Arnold J. Toynbee per page views (current 90 day average: 323 for J. and 57 for his uncle). A dab isn't needed as a hatnote to the economic historian would handle those of the 57 daily who may actually be looking for him and not landing on the wrong page as is likely occurring now. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:50, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support However, creating a dab page is unnecessary, as Arnold J. Toynbee appears to be the primary for Arnold Toynbee as well. Instead, as noted in the comment above, that page should redirect to Arnold J. Toynbee, with the hatnote directing readers to the economic historian.--Yaksar (let's chat) 16:30, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Srnec (talk) 21:20, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support Arnold J. Toynbee gets 6,092 views compared with 1,105[[3]] for this one. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:08, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support I'm not convinced that Toynbee (born 1889) is the primary topic, but Toynbee (born 1852) is certainly not. I'm not convinced that any disambiguation other than birth year will be not-confusing. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 19:59, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support and create DAB at base name.--Ortizesp (talk) 16:53, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I support dabifying, but agree with power~enwiki that year of birth disambiguation will probably be clearer for readers in this case. Colin M (talk) 18:41, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] ttps://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Toynbee,_Arnold_(DNB00)

[2] ttp://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/28/books/the-historian-kept-his-cool.html

[1]

[2]