Talk:Stanisław Lem

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Stanisław Lem article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

Stanisław Lem has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 5, 2006	Good article nominee	Listed
August 10, 2009	Good article reassessment	Kept

Current status: Good article

Biography: Arts and Entertainment

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

Science Fiction High‑importance

	Speculative fiction portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Science Fiction, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of science fiction on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Science FictionWikipedia:WikiProject Science FictionTemplate:WikiProject Science Fictionscience fiction articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Poland High‑importance

	Poland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Poland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolandWikipedia:WikiProject PolandTemplate:WikiProject PolandPoland articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Text and/or other creative content from Stanisław Lem was copied or moved into List of honors bestowed on Stanisław Lem. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

This article is substantially duplicated by a piece in an external publication. Please do not flag this article as a copyright violation of the following source:

Stanis?aw Lem Google Doodle: Ten things you need to know about the Polish science fiction writer, Mirror.co.uk

Click to show/hide further details.

copied from us almost verbatim (you can see that our article from October 2011 had exactly the same contents: [1]). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:28, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Archives

/Archive 1

Did Lem read English?

This article (under the "Philip K. Dick" section) states that Lem "did not read in English", but the Solaris (novel) page states that he "read English fluently" ("English translation" section.) Neither assertion is attributed. Which is correct, and shouldn't the incorrect one be fixed? Wocky (talk) 21:01, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Lem did read and write English, as well as German (preferred, after Polish), Latin, French, Russian. (I will did some refs and update the bio). He did not read much Am Sci Fi at the times of controversy, simply because access to it was limited in Communist Poland. Staszek Lem (talk) 02:54, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I second it - lech.keller@gmail.com

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Stanisław Lem. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070625093849/http://www.lem.pl/polish/faq/faq.htm to http://www.lem.pl/polish/faq/faq.htm
Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.cyfronet.krakow.pl/mk/bip/rada/uchwaly/show_pdf.php?id=33060

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:02, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Stanisław Lem. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:17, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

West Ukraine liberated or occupied

It was first part of Poland first occupied by by Russian Empire then some mess during Russian Civil War (West Ukrainian People's Republic) then occupied by Poland then by USSR. Anyway, see Lviv article. Staszek Lem (talk) 21:17, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree SL birthplace -->> Lviv was in Poland at that time, I just wanted to underline that version with liberation those lands from Polish forces was also not untrue. Lviv was a Polish city but there was no referendum about those lands in 1920-22, so it is not so easy to define the status - occupied/liberated/conquered/annexed. History as well may treat those territories: Vilnius Region, Western Belarus, Western Ukraine, Latgalia as annexed by Polish army by force, not by any neutral referendum.

Before the second world war (roughly years 1918-1939) it was Lwów NOT Lviv (Львів) and in years roughly 1772-1918 it was officially Lemberg. Population of this city was until end of the second world war mostly Polish and Jewish, while Ukrainians were only a small, insignifiant minority. According to data from the Statistical Yearbook, in year 1931 about 63.5% of population of Lwów were Poles, 24.1% were Jews and only 7.8% were Ukrainians.

As to the question of liberation or occupation - it depends on a point of view, as the same army can be regarded by some people as liberators while by other - occupiers.

Why Stanisław Lem did not receive his medical diploma?

The reason was simple and obvious - Stanisław Lem did not receive his medical diploma, because his father worked in the UB (Stalinist secret politcal police, Division in Poland) medical division (IPN Archive file reference number Kr 057/962), so he would also have to work there. And because Samuel Lem was recommended to work in the Ministry of Public Security, i.e. in the UB, not by just anyone, because he was recommended by Dr. Leon (Lew) Gangel, then deputy and later the Head of Health Service of that ministry, Stanisław Lem knew well, what doctors employed in the UB had to do. Dr. Gangel was known for the fact that when prisoners abused by UB officers began to fall short, that dr Leon Gangel, the head of the MBP's (UB) health service at that time, was called, who ordered these prisoners strenuous strengthening treatments, so that UB officers could continue, without fear of death od a prisoner, their interrogations (Andrzej Paczkowski, Trzy twarze Józefa Światły. Przyczynek do historii komunizmu w Polsce ["Three faces of Józef Światło: a contribution to the history of communism in Poland"] Warsaw: Prószyński i ska, 2009 p. 114).
lech.keller@gmail.com

Is this reason for Lem's known for a fact from Lem's family members or his friends, or these were Paczkowski's hypothesis? Can You provide an exact wording from the book? I am asking because for this nontrivial claim we need exact attribution; also whether it is a fact or an opinion.Staszek Lem (talk) 06:22, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

See http://otworzksiazke.pl/ksiazka/trzy_twarze_jozefa_swiatly/

I quote in original Polish language: "Funkcjonariuszom zebranym w Miedzeszynie nie dano zbyt wiele czasu na przygotowanie się. Dzień po ich zjawieniu się w „Spacerze”, 13 października, aresztowany został Lechowicz, którego, po dowiezieniu do siedziby MBP przy ul. Koszykowej - od jego mieszkania w Alei Róż było to o „rzut beretem” - powitał Światło, a 14 lub 15 października odstawiono go do Miedzeszyna. Szybko posypali się kolejni aresztanci. W ciągu paru dni w „Spacerze” znalazł się prawie komplet więźniów, zapełniały się też cele wydzielonego pawilonu w więzieniu mokotowskim. W sumie do końca października aresztowano około 30 osób. Przesłuchania zaczynano od razu, niemal z marszu. Wedle oświadczenia, złożonego w 1954 r. przez Edmunda Kwaska, który w „Spacerze” służył od początku, pierwszym bitym więźniem był Alfred Jaroszewicz, ale „po kilku lub kilkunastu dniach zaczęto bić i pozostałych”. Polecenie bicia dawał Różański za aprobatą Romkowskiego, a później już szło samo z siebie. W jednym z pierwszych przesłuchań Jaroszewicza miał brać udział Światło, który uczestniczył w zbiorowym znęcaniu się nad aresztowanym. Kwasek zaznaczył, iż służba (ochrona wewnętrzna) aresztu zaczęła naśladować starszych stopniem i biła więźniów w czasie przyprowadzania na przesłuchanie lub w drodze powrotnej do celi. Ochrona wewnętrzna szykanowała więźniów w celach - wlewano wodę, budzono ich w nocy, kontrolowano, czy zgodnie z poleceniem aresztowani w ciągu dnia nie siadają. Więźniowie mieli przydzielone numery i wywoływani byli z cel tylko po tych numerach, choć funkcjonariusze ochrony zapewne znali nazwiska przynajmniej części aresztowanych. Poza Gomułką żaden z więźniów „Spaceru” nie korzystał z tego ważnego „przywileju”, jakim było wyjście, choćby na pół godziny, na spacerniak. Może dlatego obiekt nazwano tak przewrotnie. Gdy maltretowani zaczynali niedomagać, ściągano szefa służby zdrowia MBP dr Leona Gangla, który ordynował forsowne kuracje wzmacniające, aby bez obawy o zgon można było kontynuować przesłuchania. Mimo to w samym tylko „Spacerze” zmarło co najmniej trzech więźniów: Aleksander Giercyk, który popełnił samobójstwo, a przywołany lekarz nie zdołał go odratować (zabieg usunięcia z ciała odłamków drutu, które wkręcił sobie desperat, odbywał się bez znieczulenia, na zwykłym stole, ale za to w asyście Romkowskiego, Różańskiego i Światły); Wacław Dobrzyński, oficer sztabu głównego GL/AL, po wojnie wyższy funkcjonariusz w MBR który został zakatowany przez śledczego Jerzego Kędziorę; Kazimierz Cessanis, o którym brak bliższych danych, a wedle dokumentów zmarł na żółtaczkę. Protokoły zgonu wystawiane były na fikcyjne nazwiska. Były też przypadki śmierci i samobójstw w części więzienia mokotowskiego zarządzanej przez „grupę specjalną”. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8004:1580:21F4:9123:A9FE:B5BA:D558 (talk) 21:13, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This piece speaks about Gangel and nothing about Lem. Staszek Lem (talk) 22:00, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gangel was the boss of Samuel Lem (father of Stanisław) at the UB (Political Police in Stalinist Poland) and a person who recommended Samuel Lem to the UB. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8004:1580:21F4:9123:A9FE:B5BA:D558 (talk • contribs)

In other words, you conclude that Stanislaw must have known this and made the decision. This is called "original research". Adding text into Wikipedia based on your own research/conclusions in not allowed in Wikipedia, see WP:No original research. Please find a reference which makes this conclusion about Lem's decision. Staszek Lem (talk) 19:34, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is NOT my own conclusion, but a fact based on source materials available at the IPN (State Institution of the Republic of Poland). As to reference:

Lech Keller "Przyczynek do biografii Stanisława Lema" Acta Polonica Monashiensis (Monash University: ‎Melbourne, Victoria, Australia) Volume 3 Number 2, R&S Press, Melbourne, Vic., 2019‎ I hope that you will take care of updating the main article so it will contain the full truth about Stanisław Lem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8004:1580:21F4:8854:B52C:ED72:A60E (talk) 23:55, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It can be fact only is Lem himself says so. Otherwise it is someone's opinion, ether yours or of some expert. We have to cite this expert who expresses thi opinion, as you write, based on some materials.

I do not have access to this article. Please cite what it says about the reason why Stanislaw Lem did not receive the medical diploma. By the way, there is no such thing as "full truth". Staszek Lem (talk) 01:10, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Przyczynek do biografii Stanisława Lema" is available here: https://www.academia.edu/Documents/in/Holocaust

Scroll down a little bit

It can be fact if it is proven by documents, NOT because Lem said so, as personal recollections are, as a rule, not reliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.184.173.226 (talk) 17:30, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, anyone's intentions cannot be proven as hard fact by any documents other than coming from Lem himself (and I agree people can lie and/or err). (Of course in the courts "intentions" may be proven "beyond reasonable doubt" for the purpose of the Law, but let's not go there further.) In any case, "intentions" are opinions are opinions, regardless who expresses them, and in an encyclopedia must by clearly attributed as such, unless it is a well-established, unquestioned common opinion. Anyway, I edited the article accordingly, thanks for the link. Staszek Lem (talk) 22:03, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Most widely read" ? ? ?

In the lede, Sturgeon mentioned, in 1976, that Lem "was the most widely read science fiction writer in the world".

However, in the original article that the statement was made in, Sturgeon gives absolutely no proof for the statement - - - it is his opinion!

I researched online many lists of "the most widely read science fiction writer/author" and I cannot find Lem on any of them. And these are lists of the top 15 to 25 writers/authors. In most cases, the #1 position is given to, or held by, Isaac Asimov !

I think it needs to made clear, somewhere, that the 'label' of "most widely read," as used here, is a personal opinion and not backed up by any facts or statistics.

It's possible that, in 1976, Lem was the "most widely read;" but I doubt even that.

I suggest that the inclusion of the Sturgeon sentence be re-thought.

Opinions? 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 01:21, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please give the links you researched. I am 90% sure these lists cover only anglophone world. Lem was printed in the Soviet Union in ENORMOUS quantities, so we can discount all other countries, with the exception of Poland and Germanies. Staszek Lem (talk) 20:54, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Polish titles

Could someone familiar with Lem's work translate the titles in Polish into English? If the books have not been translated, leave the Polish title but put a literal translation of the words in parentheses after it.-86.43.171.190 (talk) 17:02, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict of interest

@Staszek Lem: Are you in any way affiliated with Stanislaw Lem? If so you are required to disclose your conflict of interest. Read WP:COI. Sundayclose (talk) 04:37, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Sundayclose: Stop this baseless hounding immediately; lest you be hit by a very large and painful boomerang. As noted by another editor on your talk page, you owe User:Staszek Lem an apology. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:50, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind asking and I do not object answering about my hobbies. but I do mind bot-like tag slapping. Yes, I am affiliated with Stanislaw Lem by being his customer (I have bought nearly all his scifi works and some essays, as well as several books about him ). I do have POV bias towards him: he is among my favorite writers since childhood. Later the pool of favs was expanded by Strugatsky brothers, Asimov, Sheckley, Hal Clement, and Brian Aldiss.Staszek Lem (talk) 16:57, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Polish writer or Polish-Jewish writer

Lem is overwhelmingly described as "Polish writer", not "Polish-Jewish writer". His Jewishness is described in the bio, and does not belong to the first line of the lede. Just like Richard Feynman is American physicist, not Jewish-American physicist. Lembit Staan (talk) 19:13, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]