Talk:List of gairaigo and wasei-eigo terms

Removed ホルモン焼き

"Horumon" is not a loan word (this article mistakes it as coming from the word hormone). It is the Kansai dialect; horu = to throw away or discard, and mon (mono) = things. Literally, the things one throws away. It means the parts of the animal that originally no one wanted to eat (internal organs), hence they were discarded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.30.5 (talk) 14:22, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Article Deletion/Merge

We already have wasei-eigo and gairaigo ... do we need this article too? Not to mention the fact that many would consider the article title offensive. CES 13:12, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• There's a Japanese version of this page (see the alternate language links) which is quite big. So this could grow that big, if so, it'd not be a good idea to merge. (There are also Japanese versions of those two pages). 132.205.95.62 02:22, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • True (and I just noticed on the talk page of the Japanese version that they talk about whether to keep the page or not too!). I still wonder about the title though. CES 12:24, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. The current title "List of Gairaigo and Wasei-eigo terms" is not offensive (not sure what the offensive version was), and the linked Japanese version is 日本語における外来語の事例集 or "list of gairaigo examples found in Japanese," which doesn't include wasei-eigo terms. See also: Wikipedia is not a dictionary. --69.214.232.105 01:50, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've renamed the article and moved the lists from Gairaigo and Wasei-eigo here, and added pointers to prevent lists from starting up again on those pages. This article should remain just a list with minimal descriptive text. -- Paul Richter 09:39, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Two more

If memory serves, aren't "sarariman" (salaryman) and "bi-bi" (bye bye)? (Please forgive my undoubtedly incorrect Janglish spellings). -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 23:53, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

the first is correct, but the latter is "bai-bai" Mike H 12:25, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

almost. the "i" in salaryman is a long vowel, so it needs a macron or a circumflex over it. Please don't add to the main article if you're not sure about it. --69.214.232.105 22:30, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Removed

• "Engai-ringu - Engagement ring" was removed because it is bullshit. Searches at Google Japan for "エンガイリング," "エンゲイリング," "エンガイ リング," and "エンゲイ リング" returned zero results each.--69.214.232.105 22:30, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I got three hits for エンゲリング Fg2 00:22, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)

I got about 5 hits for エンゲーリング, however that is hardly enough to qualify as a note-worthy term. Also, it should have been romanized properly (enge ringu, engē ringu) if the contributor wasn't bullshitting and knew what he was talking about. --69.214.232.105 01:31, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Proper wasei-eigo of 'engagement ring' is エンゲージリング 'engēji ringu' (engage ring). Googling エンゲージリング gives about 132,000 hits. --Kusunose 03:56, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Foreign Nipponized English?

I've heard that a number of famous/important sites in New York City have been "nipponized" by resident Japanese. Would those be relevant to this article, or is this only for terms originating from Japan? --Feitclub 01:32, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

Are you talking about how the Japanese transcribe/pronounce names, due to their limited phonetic vocabulary, such as Central Park becoming something like "Sentoraru Paaku" and Burukkurin, Buronkusu, etc? (I don't know the exact transliteration here, I'm only guessing estimates...) If that's what you mean, I hardly think it qualifies, Native English-speakers would surely have trouble pronouncing Köln and Seine correctly, too.85.226.122.205 00:57, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

After more than two years, you may already know Karutie ja:カルティエ (Cartier, the jeweller) and Tiffanii ja:ティファニー (Tiffany & Co.). Place names include transliterations such as Burōdouei ja:ブロードウェイ (Broadway), translations: ja:五番街 (Fifth Avenue, Gobangai), and mixtures: ja:ウォールストリート (Wall Street, Uōrusutoriito, also ウォール街 Uōrugai). Gobangai is famous for Tiffany, Rokkuferaa Sentaa ja:ロックフェラー・センター, and Sakkusu Fifusu Abenyū ja:サックス・フィフス・アベニュー, as well as Central Park (as already mentioned), Myūjiamu mairu (Museum Mile) and various other sights. Fg2 11:09, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure what you mean by "limited phonetic vocabulary," or how speakers of Japanese could be considered "limited" for not pronouncing foreign words the same way as the natives do, when the exact same can be said for English speakers, or speakers of any language for that matter. Limited, compared to what other language? What I think Feitclub was referring to (four years ago) was how Japanese New Yorkers have developed their own jargon, or more specifically abbreviations, for local place names, such as Gurasen for Grand Central, and Ichi-abe, Ni-abe,... for 1st Avenue., 2nd Avenue, ... If we were to include these abbreviations as well, that would open the way for a whole new category of list expanding entries, so I think if this is what Feitclub meant, the answer is no, in the sense that list form is probably not appropriate for presenting this collection of information in the first place, but yes, in the sense that it would make for an interesting reading, which is the raison detre of this list anyway. —Tokek (talk) 10:36, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it sounds a bit insulting, perhaps "limited phonemic inventory" is more correct and less offensive to you. What is an incontrovertible fact is that the number of sounds you need to be able to make to speak Japanese is really very small - Japanese is one of the "most limited" languages in that regard. No offense! Japanese is plenty sophisticated in almost every other respect. Romance languages are almost as simple as Japanese, Germanic languages a decided step up from that. But even they are dwarfed in phonemic variety by tonal languages: Chinese, itself trumped by Cantonese, trumped by Thai. I think Navajo takes the biscuit. Interesting fact, decidedly not a coincidence: normal Japanese speaking pace (syllables or mora per minute) is the highest on record for natural languages, Navajo among the lowest. There is a simple and elegant explanation for this phenomenon.137.205.100.161 (talk) 12:32, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Addition: 'doctor-stop'

I would like to submit the term 'doctor-stop.' I Googled it and there are a couple of Japanese sites that feature it in the title (there's a TV series, a CD...) -- so I think it's legitimate. What it means is: when the doctor tells you to stop doing something. For instance, "I got a doctor-stop on drinking coffee."

Here's a good example: Nagashima-kantoku, munen no dokutaa sutoppu. A stroke prevented Shigeo Nagashima from coaching the Olympic baseball team. I encourage you to add it to the article. Fg2 21:27, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Addition: kosupure ("cos-play")

Derived from English "costume-play," kosupure (sp?) means a costume fetish, or wearing costumes during sex.

An especially interesting example, because "cos-play" seems to be now an English word derived from the Japanese, which in turn is of course from the English. I don't think the Japanese kosupree necessarily means fetishes or sex, although it can and often does; the English seems to have taken only those meanings. Fg2 05:54, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

The English borrowing certainly has not only taken those meanings: anyone who dresses up as a character for a fan convention is called a "cosplayer". Don't be fooled by how an Internet search for the term brings up a bunch of sex-related hits. As the song in Avenue Q says, "The Internet Is For Porn". — Gwalla | Talk 20:37, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Collation

What the hell is up with the collation of this list? It's wrong for japanese, and it's wrong for english. I added my entry where it seemed the current system wanted it to go, but really we should pick one option and fix the order of the whole list so it makes some sense. As this is en.wikip probably collating english style on the hepburn is the best option. --zippedmartin 10:59, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

The table makes it hard to work on the article. Also, it resulted from a merger of two earlier articles. Is there a better way to organize it than in a table? Fg2 12:41, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree that it's a pain, also makes the page impossible to read as well. Possible == splits == would be to separate out the wasei eigo terms (not very many, and possble where-to-draw the line issues), or listing along language-of-origin grounds (leaves a pretty long list for english still). Or just do headings by collation, either a/k/s/t/n/h/n/y/r/w or a/b/d/e/f/g/h... depending on what we're following. --zippedmartin 13:32, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I finally reordered the list. The most objective way to do it, I figured, was to use standard Japanese, instead of the dog's breakfast we had going there. Sorry if there are any errors, but I think I checked it pretty well. Kcumming 15:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Proposed removals

I would propose that gairaigo that are taken "as is" from English should be removed from this list. If you included such entries, the list could potentially have thousands of entries. We should limit it to the following:

• wasei-eigo where words are borrowed directly but have different meanings (ex: manshon)
• wasei-eigo where words are modified beyond recognition or are new constructions (ex: terebi, O.L.)
• gairaigo from non-English languages (ex: tabako)
• gairaigo with notable etymologies or subtleties (ex: garasu vs. gurasu)

Based on these criteria, I suggest that the following be deleted, since there's nothing particularly interesting about them.

• ai rabu yū
• on-za-rokku
• dabingu
• fōku (sure fork and folk can be mixed up, but that's not too significant)
• fōchun kukkī
• bura
• beddo
• mobairu

Also, I propose that this list be reordered in proper Japanese dictionary order...which it's pretty close to right now, but it's a little bit ambiguous in some cases, such as ka vs ga.

Hi, I think those are good classifications, very similar to the thinking that went into distinguishing this list from gairaigo and wasei-eigo. But in the case of those two articles, the concept was that they would be the expository articles that use only small numbers of examples to illustrate main points, and anything else goes here in the list. So I think this is the place for all the gairaigo (as usual, not considering old borrowings from Chinese and Korean to be gairaigo). I don't worry about lists growing long. Wikipedia's got the capacity. If eventually it needs to be split into groups of first letters (such as a-f, g-l etc.) or first kana (a-ko, sa-to etc.) then that's still ok. When you look at the phenomenal growth of Wikipedia over the last couple of years you realize how much energy is being devoted to creating new material. This list (these lists) could grow too.

But as lists grow longer, organization becomes more important, and that was your second point. I think I've put some of my contributions in alphabetical order, and some in a-i-u-e-o order. Which is to say, I'm confused about what's best. For the person who knows about the Japanese writing system and is trying to locate a word, the Japanese order makes good sense, whereas for the casual English reader or the person who has studied the use of foreign words in other languages and wants to see how it works in Japanese, a-b-c is the way to go. I'm curious as to your reasons for selecting Japanese dictionary order: was it because of the present state of the article, or do you feel it's best? Fg2 21:42, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

As for the first point, I believe that Wikipedia does have the capacity. However, I would say that additions like dabingu or bura make the list difficult and overly large for the reader. It makes it hard to find the more interesting entries, as they become lost in an overwhelmingly long list. If we split the list into categories like I suggested above, that would alleviate the issue.

As for the ordering issue, I believe that the Japanese ordering is best because it is unambiguous. If you use romanized order, you depend on a certain form of romanization, mixed with a standard English ordering, which seems irrelevant. Plus, it is a reference list. If somebody's browsing it, order doesn't really matter too much. If you want to find a certain word, then you can just use the browser's find function. The ordering, I would say, is more important for people adding content, so they know immediately if they're adding a duplicate.

I think the English Alphabet collation would be the best choice for the English Wikipedia. 85.226.122.205 00:59, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Portuguese/English

CES,

This is a selected list of gairaigo, words originating or based on foreign language (generally Western) terms, including wasei-eigo (pseudo-Anglicisms). Many derive from Portuguese, due to that country's early role in Japanese-Western interaction

I agree it was originally misleading--I should have done what you did in adding "but most come from English..."; nonetheless, English is mentioned in the first sentence as forming a major sub-component, the wasei-eigo. Thanks for helping out --Dpr 03:16, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

cf table (French)?

What is the purpose of "cf table(French)?" I don't think it's significant that the English word came from the French word...after all that applies to something like a third of the English language...

Some possibilities

Here are some words that could be added if they're not already there. I don't have a dictionary at hand to look up exact spellings or derivations. If you put any into the article, it might be worth deleting from this list, or striking out.

Transportation

• handoru
• furonto garasu
• akuseru
• beruto, shiito beruto
• enjin
• taiyaa
• hoiiru
• toransu
• bureeki
• saido bureeki
• wan bokkusu
• wagon, wagon-sha
• torakku
• kureen-sha (crane)
• tanku rōrii
• banpaa
• uaipaa
• mafuraa
• bakku miraa
• doaa, doaa rokku
• takushii
• oiru, oiru shokku
• gasoriin, gasoriin sutando
• doraibu
• Rasseru (a railway snowplow: see ラッセル車)

Medicine, therapy, health, hygiene

• kuranku
• noirōze
• kataaru
• ningen dokku <- I'd like to include this one, especially since the "dokku" is now used as a general suffix (ex: I've heard of 脳ドック now). However, I can't find any reference to indicate where "dokku" comes from. Kcumming 18:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
  • It's just the English word "dock" I think. Like a ship going in to drydock. Fg2 21:57, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
• haburashi
• puchiseikei —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fg2 (talk • contribs) 07:32, August 27, 2007 (UTC)
  • petite cosmetic surgery Fg2 22:29, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Food, beverage, cooking, dining

• shiroppu and gum syrup
• rebaa
• jagaimo, jaga (Jakarta)
• chikin
• katsu, katsuretsu
• pōku
• biifu, suteeki, biifu suteeki
• hanbaagaa
• hotto doggu
• uinnaa
• sōseeji
• kyabetsu
• usutaa sōsu
• fuisshu
• tsuna
• sandoitchi, sando
• mayoneezu
• sōsu
• doresshingu
• bagetto
• rōru, koppe pan
• raisu
• biiru
• uisukii
• wain
• uokka
• baabon
• on za rokku
• sutoreeto
• kakuteeru
• piinatsu, piinatsu bataa
• kurakkaa
• jūsu
• orenji, orenji jūsu
• remon
• miruku
• tii
• remon tii, miruku tii, aisu tii
• sukasshu, remon sukasshu
• chokoreeto
• banira
• sutorōberii
• painappuru
• kokonatsu
• kiuifurūtsu
• gureepu
• gureepufurūtsu
• raimu
• kokoa, hotto kokoa, aisu kokoa
• chiramisu
• nata de koko
• mango
• banana
• hurūtsu
• zerii
• monburan
• purin
• sarada
• retasu
• tomato
• onion
• naifu
• f(u)ōku
• supūn
• kimuchi
• karubi
• bibinba
• sabure
• bataa
• kuriimu
• maagarin
• esunikku
• piza or pitts(u)a
• supagetti
• pasuta
• baikingu, dorinku baikingu, dorinku baa
• kōhii, kapuchiino, ratte, esupuresso
• furappe
• shinamon

Electronics, software, IT, communications

• rajio, rajikase
• kasetto teepu rekōdaa
• terebi
• bideo
• konpyūtaa
• intaanetto, netto
• nettowaaku
• haado, sofuto, f(u)aamu
• ii meeru
• saito (Web site)
• terehon, terehon kaado
• kiibōdo
• disuku doraibu
• kiro, mega, giga
• furoppii disuku
• konpakuto furasshu
• maikurodoraibu
• mobairu

Clothing, accessories

• shatsu, waishatsu
• burūson
• seetaa
• surakksu
• sukaato
• doresu
• jaketto
• būtsu
• baggu, handobaggu
• beruto
• nekutai
• hankachi
• suniikaa
• sokkusu
• pantsu, pansuto, pantii, panchira
• nairon
• shiruku
• puretaporute
• ōdaameedo

Plants and animals

• kosumosu
• panjii
• raion
• taigaa
• kyatto
• doggu
• zebura

Music, drama, dance, art

• myūjikku
• piano
• gitaa, ereki
• doramu
• baiorin
• cherō
• toranpetto
• oboe
• sakkusu
• ōkesutora
• echūdo
• koncheruto
• myūjikaru
• ronguran (long run)
• shinema
• shiataa
• opera
• dorama
• sutajio
• raibu
• baree
• rizumu, rizumikaru
• haamonii
• kurashikku
• jazu
• modaan
• warutsu
• burūsu
• obuje (objet [d'art])

Sports

• supōtsu
• beesubōru
• futtobōru, amefuto
• sakkaa
• hokkee, aisu hokkee
• basukettobōru, basuketto
• bareebōru
• gurando
• sutajiamu
• orinpikku (meaning "Olympics")
• sukeeto, supiido sukeeto, f(u)igyaa sukeeto

Photography, optics

• kamera
• renzu
• f(u)irumu
• tere, waido, nōmaru, makuro
• furasshu
• kyabine (size of print)
• ōto (auto)
• manyuaru
• nega
• pinto (focus point)
• purinto
• DPE (developing, printing, enlarging)
• shattaa

Colors

• burū
• guriin
• ierō
• burakku
• howaito

Miscellaneous

• andaaguraundo, angura
• doramu kan
• pointo (railroad)
• guriin-sha
• f(u)ain (fine), fine play, nice shot
• waido
• nyūsu
• gerira
• jiguzagu
• papa
• mama
• rupo, ruporaitaa
• kanpa (from Russian)
• sunakku (very different from English usage of "snack")

Plus alpha

What is the reason for saying that plus alpha is a misreading of plus x? Fg2 08:50, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

-> Response, this was basically copied from the Japanese Wikipedia (I've seen it in other sources too). I guess that if you write in cursive / italics especially, the characters α and x can look pretty similar. Kcumming 06:44, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I see the resemblance but not the underlying reasoning. "Plus X" is the name of a black-and-white photographic film, but doesn't seem synonymous with the Japanese "plus alpha." Oh well... Thanks for the response. Fg2 08:31, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

In this case, "x" is the "x" that is often used as a sort of generic variable name. It's not so much the actual phrase "plus x" (which isn't really a common idiom itself) that was misinterpreted, but mostly just the variable itself. Kcumming 20:18, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Roadshow

Take a look at the definition given here: [1]. Ignore the bit where they say it's equivalent to "preview" in English; what they're describing is clearly a film's commercial premiere. And if you Google "テレビロードショー" or something similar, you'll find several uses that have nothing to do with theatres. --Lanius 15:15, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Wow, you're right. Thanks for the correction (as well as the URL of a good resource for this field: http://cinemakun.com/word/index.html)! Apologies all around for sticking a misleading definition into the list. Most of my contact with the word was through television, and my impression was that it referred to flicks that were making the rounds of the theaters; I see now that it is only certain, selected theaters—i.e., premiere showings, mainly in major cities. (And no, I don't usually shoot from the hip—I guess I just got ahead of myself on this one.) Best regards, Jim_Lockhart 16:03, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

This page is crazy

There are thousands and thousands of gairaigo in Japanese. Most English words can and are sometimes borrowed in Japanese. Wikipedia is not a dictionary, but I think a listing of wasei-eigo/wasei-gairaigo is interesting enough to warrant an entry. What I propose is that this list is moved to the title "List of wasei-garaigo" (or possibly "wasei-eigo"), and remove all the gairaigo. Some of the entries now are just stupid, such as アイ・ラブ・ユー, sure, it's the way Japanese pronounce it but it is in no way a part of the Japanese language. Mackan 14:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I partially agree. See above (proposed removals). I think there's no point to having straight English loan words...there could be tens of thousands. Unless there's some real valid objection, I'm going to do some pruning some time soon. Kcumming 16:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

"lucky"

• I hear "lucky" a lot in Japanese. Should it be added? Danny Lilithborne 09:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I've been trying to promote a policy where no English loanwords are listed unless there's something significant about their etymology, phonology, or usage. I think that "lucky" kind of falls in a grey area. It is a direct loan from the English word. However, it does have a pretty idiomatic usage in Japanese (similar to the way that "chance") does. So I could be convinced, but it would be best if we described the particularities of the Japanese usage in the entry. Kcumming 04:29, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

The list above at Talk:List of gairaigo and wasei-eigo terms#Some possibilities contains a lot of suggestions. If you feel like it, you might strike out any that you feel do not pass your criteria. Fg2 05:59, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

New page for mistakes

I decided there should be a new list page for terms that are often mistaken for being gairaigo.

• List of Japanese terms mistaken for gairaigo

Take a look and let me know what you think. --Kcumming 04:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Is neta often mistaken as gairaigo? Hadn't heard that one. Fg2

Well I don't know how commonly it is, but I have heard it mistaken as such, due to it often being written in katakana and its similarity to the word "net." --Kcumming 15:27, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, "net" -- that makes a sensible mistake. Fg2 21:03, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Margarine

The entry for バター mentions margarine as well, but for the most part, margarine is　マーガリン (link is to Japanese wikipedia). Is there any specific instance where バター is mislabelled on margerine as currently described in the バター line of the article? Neier 23:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Spanish words

I have seen that some gairaigo words are referring to Portuguese. However some are closer to Spanish than Portuguese, for example pan. Gairaigo:pan, Spanish:pan, English:bread

Don’t forget that Filipinas was a Spanish colony where Spanish was talk. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.97.233.91 (talk) 10:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC).

It doesn't really matter what they're closer to, it matters from what language they were borrowed. In the case of pan, the word is similar in all Romance Languages, coming from common roots in Latin. But it was the Portuguese who brought the concept of bread to the Japanese. --Kcumming 14:06, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

To my recollection, the Portuguese were not the ONLY Iberians in Japan. It was both the Spanish and the Portuguese. The Franciscans and the Jesuits. In fact, the Japanese ships had made contacts with the Spanish in New Spain. Seems like someone just lumped everything into Portuguese for the sake of expedience, considering how it would be nearly impossible to make the disctinctions since both language are very similar. However, it is incorrect to lump Portuguese and Spanish together without giving any credit or mention of the Spanish. 68.123.239.146 (talk) 10:37, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

On "anime"

This one is a common misunderstanding. Because it is often written "animé" people assume it must come from French (people assume the same about toire sometimes). Aside from the fact that my Japanese dictionary, which is listed as a reference at the bottom of the page, shows that it is an English loanword, there is the fact that it makes no sense to assume it comes from French. A quick check of a French dictionary (http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/animation) shows that animation is pronounced such that the ma sounds like ma and not mé. Also, this word was probably borrowed in the mid 20th century, when increased American cultural influence meant that the majority of loan words came from English. --Kcumming 15:31, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the recent edit by Neoyamaneko, which contained a source for the assertion of anime being French. Some guy's university webpage about anime is not a reliable source for linguistics. Let's discuss the issue here before making any further edits to the page. --Kcumming 19:44, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

A further note: the following online Japanese dictionaries all indicate that the word is borrowed from English (it's standard in Japanese dictionaries to specifically state the language source of a loanword only if it is not from English). Look up アニメ and you will see it's short for アニメーション, which is said to come from "animation." Compare this with アベック, for example, which specifically states that it comes from French.

• http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/
• http://www.excite.co.jp/dictionary/japanese/
• http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/

--Kcummin g 20:10, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Spot on on all counts. And paper dictionaries back up Kcuming. Particularly important, though, is that Wikipedia policy requires attribution to reliable sources. Best regards, Jim_Lockhart 03:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Orai

I'm not disputing the insertion of "orai", I was actually on the verge of doing so myself, but is it ever heard outside the context of a car or truck reversing with the driver's friend watching at the back calling it out? --DrHacky 07:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

The place I heard it, that caused me to include it, was in the phrase: shuppatsu shinko! hassha orai!, which I heard in a children's show, spoken by a character playing a train driver. I asked a native speaker about it, and it seemed to be pretty commonplace. Kcumming 15:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, it's commonplace, I used to hear it in the street all the time. But your example is still in the context of "clear for vehicle to move", is it used with the full broader meaning of English 'all right'? --DrHacky 01:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

No, probably it is more limited in usage...but I didn't want to say that until I knew for sure how it was limited. Kcumming 15:06, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I discussed it with someone, and that person came up with other usage examples beyond the vehicular ones. For example, 結果オーライ. My dictionary just says it means よろしい、よし、OK. I'll leave it like it is for now. Kcumming 16:21, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Orai is short form of all right or every thing right. begining of use Orai began to navigate car driver, and now use for any situatuin. OK is all right, among japanese. do you clarifi term origin, now Orai ? --Namazu-tron 02:32, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

So "orai" has a much broader usage now, that's interesting. Is it still worth mentioning the deviant usage for vehicles in Japan, which doesn't occur in English, as that's much of the point of a list of gairaigo- that they are often used differently to their word of origin. --DrHacky 04:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Kcumming 14:48, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

to: DrHacky

My explanation is somewhat over statement or exaggeration. the Orai usage is recommended in the situation that every thing is OK or no problem if counter part person is wondering about problem or obstacle to go, and if you find it OK, "Orai" is usable as immediate response or go-ahead sign. if you response with Orai in 1 minute later, it sound funny or not fit as smooth conversation. OK is much more useful for most situation, and most Japanese understand. Vehicle navigation with Orai is origin usage and still good use. Orai is not replaceable OK in all the time.--Namazu-tron 10:33, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

To Namazu-tron

Namazu-tron, thanks for your recent edits. It's good to have the perspective of a native speaker here. I made some changes to some of your edits. Much of it seemed to be etymological information, so I moved those instances to the origin column. Some other ones were redundant so I removed them. One of the others was difficult to understand. I'll post it here for clarification:

Traditionally half refer to mixed parentage as slang.

I'm not sure of the meaning of that. Could you elaborate?

Thanks again, I hope to see more from you. Kcumming 16:27, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe Namazu-tron meant that "half" traditionally means a person of mixed race. This puts the word "new" in the expression "new half" in context by defining the term without "new." Fg2 22:18, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi, thanks a lot for correcting my writing, to Kcumming and you all ( Texas dialect ?)with authentic English to be the Dictionary. Fg2, your understanding is half correct and half not correct.... I'm kidding.. Haha.., 50% OK and rest 50%is not. "a person of mixed race" in this context is refer to child born between U.S. GI ( sands for Government Issue ?) and Japanese girl after World War II and GHQ(General Head Quarter, Japanese call so.) had been stationed. Today, many foreign people seen in all over Japan, but right after War in 1945 to 1970s, not many of them. Such children, Japanese call them "half" with prejudice, meaning 50% American blood and 50% Japanese blood. "new half" is brand new type of "half" which is intermediate of male and female by wearing female costume and/or sexual changed from male to female, or vise versa. They entertain the guest in bar or Nightclub and such night joy places.--Namazu-tron 01:45, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, Namazu-tron. Your sense of humor is enjoyable! Fg2 01:49, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Discussion for Gairaigo, arigatō

Discussion for Gairaigo arigatō ( I write here than "discussion of Gairaigo", because discussion of Gairaigo is quite neet and no discussion at all), "arigatō": Comment for Gairaigo Misconceptions, the word arigatō. "arigato" is the variation of "Arigatai", and is separated to ari+gatai. Ari is to represents "in being" or "existing". gatai is be difficult or not easy thing. Originally it means "human being" is difficult in being in this world. There is a one Verse in Dhammapada. This is in context, "We, human being is to alive in this world is difficult or no easy, and although shall be die in some day, we are in being with life but each one's life exist in this world itself is difficult thing, rare happening or kind of miracle." Arigato is originally thanks (to God) on all of us, we are exist with life in this world now. The one of Buddhism's idea or philosophy. I am not sure that people use "arigato" know such origin. --Namazu-tron 11:30, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I really like how this page links to the Wiktionary article now. The explanation there is very detailed and interesting. Thanks for your insight. Kcumming 14:29, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Kcumming, thanks. correction: "neet" should read "neat".--Namazu-tron 15:49, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Butting

Very recent(3-5 years may be) popular gairaigo among Japanese, "バッティング""battengu" not listed here yet, is said from English word=Butting, meaning, competing in business, in with different opinion, in love with other person, such as dual or triple or more offers, bidding and etc as in such conditions. Is to understand this gairaigo derived from English word "butting" or "butt" acceptable ? I can not clearly find this meaning on word "butt" in my dictionary.--Namazu-tron 05:08, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Never heard it before, but it could be derived from "to butt heads with someone", which means to have some sort of disagreement or a clash of personalities. Otherwise it might be from "batting", maybe related to baseball? Do you have some usage in context? A link to an entry in a Japanese dictionary?--DrHacky 06:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

"To butt heads" was my first guess too. Animals also butt heads. I bet you're right. Fg2 06:52, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the English idiom is based on how bulls or moose fight, not on how people might headbutt. "Battingu" does seem to exist in baseball, as in "batting practice", according to my native speaker, but may not be related to this usage.--DrHacky 09:07, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

"バッティング""battengu is used for batting in baseball, and still used, sample and typical usage in Japan is Matsui, Matsui or Ichoro does good batting today, he is good batting player, some need more batting practice, and so on. By the way, though I'm now live in Tokyo area, my country is the same to Hideki, only 30 minutes drive. another "battengu" or butting become popular in any talks and publication on newspaper or weely magazine( mostly, not top grade publications) , but not used by NHK or eminent newspaper officially yet, I guess. But "battengu" is understandable word for most people. Example are: company A wants merge B, and also C wants too, in such competitive stage, "A and C are in butting, or doing battengu. supermarket A and C wants open and propose to community opening strategy, A and C are doing battengu or in battengu status/conditions. In early use of battengu is for such business terms. Then now used, even used to love competition, not many people though, but understandable in hearing. Even eminent commentator on TV does use word butting, "battengu" today. I believe battengu, derived batting and butting, different meaning and different English origin is eligible to list up on gairaigo here, and it might be a good guide for people to Japan from overseas or Gaijin here in Japan. Is anyone try to list up, then watch someone does comment, modify, or DELETE.--Namazu-tron 11:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

PS: Analogy is male bull or moose head-butting to get female, mostly on business and even acceptable usage on love affair in Japan today.--Namazu-tron 11:31, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

transmit or transmission

This is the talking Japanese originated words rather than gairaigo, but I would like to your help for definition. For these, transmit or transmission, Japanese has two words. "tensou 転送" literally refer to sending with roll out, apply to transmission between PC and peripheral equipment(s) without signal form change such as modulation, transmit anything in very proximity or short distance, or transfer mail, cargo, a thing with form or style as it is, or without change. Another word "densou　伝送" literally refer to send or relay with telling or talking/speaking, apply to transmit signal with modulation and this "densou" apply to communication technology area only. not use like to do "densou" the cargo. "tensou" the cargo is correct usage in Japanese. If engineer use "tensou" for telecommunication which send to far distance location, he is not expert in Japan, he should use "densou" instead. My question is, is there different word(s) to discriminate above two condition which Japanese does? --Namazu-tron 01:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Mirra

I can find no trace of such a word in Portuguese, and my wife, a native speaker, has never heard of it. So I put 'miira' here until someone can find what language, if any, it is from. |- |ミイラ |miira |mirra |a mummy |Portuguese - Rothorpe 20:45, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

How fluent is your wife at early 17th century Portuguese? The Portuguese missionaries introduced the word to Japanese around the start of the 17th century. An early quote can be found in the c. 1610 Christian text Baterenki (伴天連記): "みいらと云油を持て参、是は諸病ふせぐ薬なりとて、ぜすきりしとのかうべにぬりたる其まなびに". Bendono 00:09, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

In that quote it appears to mean a kind of oil, presumably used for the body of the dead. Maybe that will make it easier to identify the word in a historical Portuguese dictionary. In any case, Iwanami's Kokugo Jiten 3rd Edition 1985 p. 1048 confirms that miira comes from Portuguese mirra. Fg2 01:08, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is a kind of sap used in the mummification process. Compare it to the English word myrrh, and a number of other cognate words. For the actual mummy usage, an early quote is the 1631 Tashikihen (多識編):"木乃伊 美知比登南蛮今云美伊良". 木乃伊 is the Chinese ateji (borrowed from Dutch mummie). 美知比登 is Man'yōgana for michihito which is the same as mitsujin (蜜人) meaning mummy. And at the end, it says "now known as miira" (美伊良, too, is Man'yōgana). Bendono 01:44, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Let me supplement this with a quick English rendition of the first quote: "Bringing an oil called miira, he says it is a medicine to block various diseases, and in imitation of how it was rubbed on Jesus Christ's head [...]". Bendono 02:09, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Redundancy alert!

Ever checked Germanism article? This really looks like the same on a copy of this (e. g. ryukkusakku an all those derived from German are listed again, so we have almost everything twice). Should we maybe remove all J-germanisms from the other article and link to this one here? .andy 92.229.164.237 (talk) 15:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi Andy, I clicked that link but didn't find what you mentioned. Were you looking at a different article? Fg2 (talk) 21:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Statistics

It would be nice to have statistics, such as 80% English, 4% French, etc... Some research might have been done, or... do we have enough words to make our own meaningful statistics ? Thanks! Nicolas1981 (talk) 10:15, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia has a policy of not publishing original research (for the policy, see Wikipedia:No original research), so an approach that's compatible with Wikipedia policy is to find research that someone else has already published. Especially if it's in a refereed journal of research on language, it will meet Wikipedia's need for reliable sources.

Wikipedia does not prohibit counting and calculating, but as you suspected we don't have enough words in the article to make it meaningful, and what's worse, since I've tried to add words from some underrepresented languages (and maybe others have too), percentages figured from our list wouldn't provide a clear picture of the language. Nice project, though, for research — just not for publication in Wikipedia. Fg2 (talk) 11:09, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Suitability for Wikipedia

While this article has entertainment value, and it's fun to chime in with our own additions from time to time, I doubt the suitability of this list existing in Wikipedia. Both whether the content should be included in Wikipedia in the first place and then whether list format is appropriate. First of all, unlike in Wiktionary, which in theory we could move the entire collection over to, we are limiting ourselves to having a tiny row to put each entry in. There's also the issue of scalability and notability and meeting Wikipedia's requirements (e.g. WP:INDISCRIMINATE). Or, perhaps the info could be moved to a wiki site that's better specialized for katakana-go than Wiktionary. Or am I being unnecessarily doubtful here? —Tokek (talk) 09:57, 2 August 2009 (UTC) (Oops, checked the "minor edit" checkbox by mistake. My bad. —Tokek (talk) 09:59, 2 August 2009 (UTC))

There's nothing indiscriminate about this list. The entries share a clear property: they are English words of Japanese origin. Fg2 (talk) 10:05, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this article's list has an inclusion criteria, I agree. The policy page, though, is referring to Wikipedia as a whole. As a whole, the Encyclopedia shouldn't indiscriminately collect information. While I would like to add more to the list as much as the next guy, I am doubtful whether Wikipedia is the best place for doing this. —Tokek (talk) 10:45, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

List of Gairaigo of German origin

Don't we need an article of Japanese words of German origin? I think it touches upon an important aspect of Germany-Japan relations: academic and technological cooperation. The Japanese article ja:ドイツ語から日本語への借用 lists the following:

• Medical science: Aspirin, Adrenalin, Allergie, Oblate, Gaze, Kaffein, Kapsel, Karte, Gips, Genom, Keloid, Kollagen, Zyanose, Tuberkulin, Neurose, Virus, Hysterie, Hormon, Rezept and Vakzin
• Chemistry: Schale, Präparat, Messzylinder, Antimon, Uran, Energie, Kalium, Chrom, Gel, Selen, Sol, Tantal, Titan, Tellur, Natrium, Niob, Neodym, Mangan, Molybdän, Lanthan and Praseodym
• Politics and Thought: Antithese, Ikon, Ideologie, Sprechchor, Hierarchie and Proletariat
• Economy: Kartell and Konzern
• Music: Takt, Bass, Philharmonie and Metronom
• Skiing: Gelände, Stock and Bogen
• Food: Gummi, Baumkuchen and Joghurt
• Other: Arbeit, Kategorie, Dachshund, Thema, Vektor, Bombe, Märchen, Rucksack and Wappen

Shinkansen Fan (talk) 02:50, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

"Iesu" needs to be corrected or removed

It's the word Japanese use for Jesus. I think it should be deleted or at least corrected. I noticed this word is said to be from Portuguese, but the name Jesus is spelled and pronounced exactly the same way in Church Latin, and given that the first Japanese Christians were converted by Catholic missionaries, this is the likely etymology. 68.106.222.230 (talk) 08:40, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I think there are a few mistake

I spotted at least 2 or 3 mistakes.

Gaze and Fanfare are not from German, but from French (even the spelling makes it obvious. There are obviously not originally German).

You can see here that French was the source of the speading of the terms (here in English but it's true in many European countries)

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=gauze&searchmode=none

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=fanfare&searchmode=none

Pinsetto also comes from French pincette not from Dutch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Waggg (talk • contribs) 11:24, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

No, they are not mistakes. The language names do not indicate the origin of the word, but the languages from which Japan first learned the words. Japanese dictionaries say gaze and fanfare are learned from German. Oda Mari (talk) 14:14, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

What about: フォトスタンド (foto sutando)

Just by accident I spotted this one. Might belong into the list as well. There is no such thing as a "photo stand" in English; it would be called a picture frame there. However, there is also a more sophisticated term for it in Japanese language, which, however, is harder to write since it must be written in kanji: 写真立て :) -andy 77.191.195.135 (talk) 13:44, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Questioning ママ's status as a loanword

Not to say that mama doesn't have uses specific to Japanese (eg female bar owner as referred by her staff and/or patrons) as well as being one of the ways to refer to one's mother, but to claim it is a loanword requires some more proof, because as a sequence of sounds it occurs across all languages during the early stages of language acquisition along with papa, tata and dada. All of them end up being used as kinship terms one way or another (for one, Japanese 'haha' (mother) probably derives from 'papa' in earlier stages of Japanese). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.7.24.125 (talk) 06:44, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Alcohol / アルコール

The word アルコール entered Japan via Dutch and not Portuguese. In both languages it was borrowed from Arabic, but it is established that the modern Japanese pronunciation is based on the Dutch one. I suggest mentioning that the word origin is "Arabic via Dutch".

https://ja.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB#.E8.AA.9E.E6.BA.90 --Barnblan (talk) 07:35, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments -- I reverted the edits just made. Two reasons: (1) See Oda Mari just above: "No, they are not mistakes. The language names do not indicate the origin of the word, but the languages from which Japan first learned the words." So this is not the place to mention Arabic. (2) Because the claim of Dutch rather than Portugues borrowing is unsourced. Wiktionary is a wonderful thing, but its standards for sourcing are actually lower than WP's, so it is not enough. I also notice that the Japanese pronunciation matches Portuguese better than Dutch (modern versions, so this is not definitive either). If you can find a RS justifying the Dutch loan theory, let's see it.

Personally I think that this list is suitable for a dictionary rather than an encyclopedia, and since it has been copied to Wiktionary, this page could go. But.... Imaginatorium (talk) 15:06, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, why didn't I do this first. Daijirin says Dutch, so Dutch it is... Imaginatorium (talk) 15:09, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Point of general interest: Dutch should be your default assumption for terminology related to experimental and medical sciences, particularly as current in the 17th century when the Dutch had unique access to trade with Japan.137.205.100.161 (talk) 12:19, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Nahuatl

Nahuatl is certainly the source of the word "tomato". What seems almost equally certain to me is that Japanese imported the word by way of English. The criterion is "The language names do not indicate the origin of the word, but the languages from which Japan first learned the words" (see above).137.205.100.161 (talk) 12:16, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Mongolese, Nahuatl, Sanskrit...

In fact, some words (Latin, Sanskrit, Indo-European classics) are borrowed from/via chinese, english, german... Is ゼン "zen (禅 禪 Dhyāna)" needed to list? For example, 旦那 "danna" is a Sanskrit word "dāna" via chinese. But this article have only the word ゼン "zen".

I saw this article at 837356072 [2] for the first time. --3代目窓屋 (talk) 09:27, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Which are which

It seems to me there is a basic problem with this list, namely that you can't tell which are gairaigo and which are wasei-eigo, so I think it would smart if we split them into two tables. Ideally that task would be better suited for someone whose Japanese is not as rusty as mine. —howcheng {chat} 16:46, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

"waifu" is not on the list. Please add it.

Santropedro (talk) 02:41, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Strange Amount of Porn/Sex Stuff, no?

wtf, nerds. Clean this up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:602:9E00:E620:B039:87B8:F848:F91F (talk) 23:52, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

wooper looper

I am having a hard time finding reliable sources for ウーパールーパー, meaning axolotl, being derived from English. While it is written in katakana, Wooper looper is not an English term, so this is not WP:SKYBLUE obvious. Browsing Google book results for "Wooper Looper" seem to suggest that the term is Japanese, or used in Japan or similar. Jstore has 0 hits for "Wooper looper", and Google Scholar only has a couple that are not helpful, suggesting this term has little-to-no academic usage, even in linguistics.

Wiktionary said this in 2017: (1985) named so in a TV commercial, from English super- and looper (“inchworm”), to avoid アホロートル, which is homophone with アホロートル (“stupid old fart”). but the details were trimmed a month later. No source is provided, and Wiktionary is not a reliable source for Wikipedia. The etymology seems plausible, but without a source it's indistinguishable from folk etymology.　(Also, why wouldn't it be "スーパールーパー"?)

@DrHacky: has suggested that the Jisho.org entry supports this. This is a very useful site, but it is a labor of love that compiles information from elsewhere. It's about page says The data used in Jisho comes from a variety of open source projects. This includes Wikipedia and other sites which host user-generated content (WP:UGC). Entries are mainly populated from JMDict. The JMDict entry for this word doesn't mention etymology.

Per Wikipedia:Verifiability#Wikipedia and sources that mirror or use it, the potential risk here is "citogenesis", where an assumption or misconception remains because was added to Wikipedia in the past, not because independent, reliable sources have looked at it. it would be very nice to find sources for this to potentially prevent spreading misinformation. Sources would be useful both here, and potentially at jp:メキシコサンショウウオ. Grayfell (talk) 19:30, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello!

You probably won't find Wooper Looper as an English term because it's not. It's a Wasei-Eigo term, meaning it was coined in Japan although based on English words. By the standards of the rest of this list, I believe it's sufficient to show that (a) it's a term used in Japanese, and (b) it's not of purely Japanese or Chinese etymology. The Jisho.org link supports this, but I only give it as the most-readily available English language source (and as my go-to for checking Japanese.) Japanese dictionaries also say as much, without diving into the derivation: Goo or Weblio.

As for the etymology, this blog explains that it was originally called "super looper", but that as "super" was such a common name for other commercial goods, the "s" was discarded leaving "uper/wooper looper", and this usage was made popular by the UFO cup yakisoba commercial of 1985. This blog says the same. I'm afraid I can't find anything more academic at this point, but those dictionary sources at least attest that it's a legitimate wasei-eigo. DrHacky (talk) 16:04, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

"External links" and linking to the JA WP

@Yohaya:, no argument with your edit comment that this is the EN WP. That said, each EN WP article already links through to the corresponding pages in potentially all other-language WPs. This particular page, en:w:List of gairaigo and wasei-eigo terms, doesn't happen to have an exact correlation on the JA WP, or indeed in apparently any other WP site, so there's nothing listed in the "languages" sidebar on the left. Consequently, including a link to a close analog (List of Japanese words of French origin in the JA WP) is useful to readers looking to find relevant content in the JA WP.

In brief, including the link to the page on the JA WP is 1) relevant, and 2) useful, and also 3) not harmful to this page in any way that I can understand.

Could you please lay out a case for why this link should not be included?

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 23:23, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

It's not in English. That obviously means it's not useful to the majority of readers of English Wikipedia. Nor is it even an external link. Yohaya (talk) 09:31, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

• Wikipedia articles may include external links, links to web pages outside Wikipedia (my emphasis)
• Outside of citations, external links to English-language content are strongly preferred in the English-language Wikipedia Yohaya (talk) 10:14, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

I'm fine with placing such a link in a different section. I also wondered whether ==External links== were the appropriate location.

I've just discovered the {{interlanguage link}} template, intended for precisely this kind of use. I've added this in the ==See also== section alongside the links to the glossaries for Portuguese- and Dutch-derived Japanese terms. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 18:24, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Does this article in its current form contribute to wikipedia?

I'm not a wikipedia master, so please be gentle... I'm honestly very surprised to see a decades-old heap of unsourced entries here (many of which having a large question mark over them in terms of 2022 usage.) I thought that Wikipedia is not supposed to be a dictionary. I also thought that wikipedia isn't an unfiltered mass of information. Where is the encyclopaedic value in this page?

Lack of sources is not an issue if sources exist and can be found. However, not only is this article poorly assembled, even updating it with citations and more real-world examples would not solve its lack of encyclopaedic value. An encyclopaedia gives us a summary of knowledge on a topic. This article isn't knowledge, it's a list of words. Forming it into something with encyclopaedic value seems as though it would require a well-sourced examination of a narrower selection of popular loan words. At that point, would it not be a better investment to focus directly on the wasei-eigo page itself?

If a person knows nothing about loan words in Japanese, isn't it fair to imagine that they'd be best served by reading an encyclopaedic article on loan words in Japanese, including a few well-researched examples of commonly used loan words? If that individual is inspired to seek out a large volume of words and phrases, isn't that almost precisely the purpose served by a dictionary? In short, is this article not something that might belong on Wiktionary, not on Wikipedia?

I see in the deletion debate on this topic 5 years ago that someone mentioned the existence of many such 'list of English words of ___ origin' pages, as if that justifies this article's existence. I feel that the argument, 'many other similar articles exist so this one should stay', is not productive. While it's a good idea to try to behave consistently according to the guidelines, treating localised decisions on specific pages as votes on site-wide changes is only going to choke and stifle discussion, and make achieving progress feel impossible.

Reading the talk pages of many of these similar articles shows me that there are consistent concerns similar to mine on this topic, but as the volume of debate is small, they rarely achieve enough inertia to find a lasting consensus. 2001:240:2405:8BF:CCAD:BF21:7459:FF17 (talk) 04:24, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Maybe cocoa (ココア) can be added

I'm not sure about the word's origin, but English has this word too, so it's might be a loanword in Japanese. Epyxoid (talk) 17:12, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

幾つか気になるが…とりあえず一言。

日本人からしたら…読んでて面白い。 幾つか偏見的に見えるところも散見するが。 兎にも角にも日本語は難しい。文法における自由度や場面に於いての使い分けが複雑が故だとは思う。 もし、"日本人が普段使う外国人に通じない語集"として纏めるならば、それはある意味で今後の日本人にとっても有用であるとは思える。 業界用語となると、途端にカタカナでの表現が増える、しかし元の言葉と意味合いが同じ事は多いが、用法や意味が異なる場合があるし、組み合わせや略称によっては分かりにくいものもあるだろう。 何でも表にしたら膨大な量になるだろうし、説明を要する物とある程度分ける必要があるだろう。 表について云うと、日本語の性質上として標準抑揚や場面をあわせて書くべきかもしれないですね。 また、外国に於いて本来の日本語とは別の意味の言葉も幾つかあるので、これも纏めるのも良いかも知れない。 T ohm83 (talk) 12:47, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Purpose of this article

Well, what is it? There is a "dynamic list" template, which says that the list is "dynamic", which means constantly changing, but also asserts that the answer is to add more entries. So is it the purpose of the article to list as far as possible all Japanese loans from non-Chinese languages? Or is there a criterion for selectivity?

Recently someone added an entry:

アモック or アムック

amokku or amukku

amuk or amok

to run amok

Malay / Indonesian

I guess that actually it came from the English "(to run) amok"; which came originally from Malay. But there are no sources supporting almost every claim made by this article, even if for very many it is pretty obvious. But if I delete this one as dubious, since unsourced, there will be a preference for words which "obviously" came from English. This does not seem very good, so what arguments are there for not deleting the article? Imaginatorium (talk) 14:28, 26 October 2023 (UTC)