Talk:Ashkelon

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rocket into hospital

The rocket that hit the Ashkelon hospital did not hit it in may 2008 but earlier, in februray 08: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3512185,00.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.229.116.204 (talk) 19:10, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Image Size

The image on this page needs to be reset for a smaller size. Brockthepaine 16:39, 25 Mar 2008

Done - there was some change at WikiMedia which meant that this happened on many pages. The fix: simply to remove the px from after the image size although also in this case the 3 was missing from the main image. Thanks for flagging it up. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 16:13, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Name: What is Ashqelon-Ashkelon

How pretentious that Ashkelon is Ashqelon in the English-language Wikipedia, to stroke parochial vanities. Wetman 16:22, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Wha...? Where is this coming from? Isn't Ashqelon the official spelling? It was always my understanding that Ashkelon is a media spelling, much like Rechovot instead of Rehovot, or Eilat instead of Elat, or Hawaii instead of Hawai‘i. Ashqelon is also the closest diacritic-free spelling alternate to the academic Standard Hebrew transliteration, Ašqəlon. What's the matter? Who's stroking whose vanities? - Gilgamesh 01:00, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

There is no "official" spelling, but Ashkelon is the most common.--Josiah 01:02, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This is what I know. Before recently when I merged Ashkelon and Ashqelon, Ashkelon was about the history of the city (including modern times), and Ashqelon was purely about the Israeli city with a few more specific details on it. It's also been Asqalān in Arabic and Ascalon in Latin. With all the different forms, I thought it proper to unite them under the Standard Hebrew name. - Gilgamesh 02:49, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Also, look at the page history of Ashqelon to see how the article already existed. Since it's the article for the city today, I put Ashkelon's content in the history section then placed a redirect to Ashqelon. And "Ashqelon" is not as uncommon as you may think — there are thousands of Google results for it. There's nothing pretentious about it; it would instead seem to suggest that Ashqelon and Ashkelon are both permissable spellings and neither is necessarily wrong. Also, plenty of other articles for Israeli cities (and Israeli settlements) use Q in the article spelling. See Qiryat Arba. - Gilgamesh 02:55, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

One reason that there was an entry Ashkelon for the ancient city and a separate Ashqelon for the modern one is that the modern city is not historically continuous with the ancient site, nor even exactly on the same ground. (Please click on the link.) "Ashkelon" has been the standard spelling in English print since the 17th century, google-schmoogle. Wetman 01:43, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Alright, I won't dispute it. "Ashkelon" it is. - Gilgamesh 04:23, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Issues regarding using "Canaanite" as a "Hebrew" script

Please see comments regarding this matter at [2] Thank you. IZAK 08:00, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Changes of Hebrew definitions

See discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#New "twist and turn" as "Hebrew alphabet" is switched to "Hebrew languages" concerning appropriate uses of the word "Hebrew" here. IZAK 05:33, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

History

A large chunck of history between Byzantium and the Crusades needs to be filled in. --Yodakii 08:42, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Equaly important, a large chunk of history between 7th Century and 1948 needs to be filled in from the vantage point of its own culture and inhabitants. Al Majdal was not exactly a ghost town unless you consider Arabs or Muslims to be ghosts. It is for this reason that a separate page for AL Majdal is necessary in order to have freedom of thought and justice. This is not intended to be a political argument. I simply don't see how the current page here can survive a transition from a mind-set that is fixated on European events to another that is concerned with local events like any other functional city. It needs to address historical landmarks such as the shrine of Imam Hussein and the fountain of Job (Biblical figure) for example. Users who keep redirecting Al majdal seem to be in denial of the fact that others once inhabited the city for a very long period of time. And that many important historical events took place over there and would need to link to somewhere when the topics are written and cleaned. Thank you for your consideration. HAE

this text has been reverted into a very empty version:

Ashkelon (Hebrew: אַשְׁקְלוֹן; Tiberian Hebrew ʾAšqəlôn; Arabic: عسقلان ; Latin: Ascalon) is a city in the western Negev, in the South District of Israel. It was established on the area of an the ancient Philistine (an non-semitic sea people unrelated to todays people by similar name). Ashkelon is seaport on the east coast of the Mediterranean Sea just north of Gaza, close to the ruins of the ancient city which existed for over 5000 years. There are about 117,000 citizens in the city. The anciant city was detroyed at 604 BC by the Babilonian king Nbochadnezar and again during the Arab conquest in 1270 AD. An Arab settlement called "Al-Mijdal" was established on the site after the original area was destroyed completely by the Mamluke king Biberes after it had served as a Crusader base. There remained a large Jewish population in the town until the Crusaders invaded the region in 1153. This was the remnant of the population into which Hordus the king had been born, the Jewish King who rebuilt the Second Temple, and also invested in much building efforts in Ashkelon. The city is home to several startigic facilities such as a power plant, a small harbor and one of the world largest de-salinization plant - all located at the southern end of the city. Recently, the area has been a target of Palestinian Kasam rockets fired from Gaza.

i figure there's some good info here which needs to be readmitted, i will maybe give it a go at a later date. Jaakobou 05:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The first requirement is a good source, but that text had no source at all. Second, a lot of that material is already present in the article in a more reliable form. Third, some of this text is pure speculation, such as the claim that the Jewish population in 1153 was a remnant of some population of 1500+ years earlier. This is way, way, more than any actual historical evidence can possibly be found for. We should avoid speculative assertions. Of course, well-sourced data on the Jewish history would be welcome (though not necessarily in the introduction). Also the time of founding of al-Migdal needs a source and besides it was not "on the site" but a few km to the north-east. It wasn't even the closest Arab village to the site (that was al-Jurah). The relevance of al-Migdal to this article is that the houses of al-Migdal were the initial buildings of modern Ashkelon. --Zero^talk 08:08, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Ashkelon is NOT Mijdal

I am really not sure why all this Mijdal info is in this article.

Ashkelon is a city that existed from biblical times and now a city in modern israel.

Mijdal is a Palestinian village/town that was near by (a bit inland) and no longer exist - it dersve it;s own article like many non exist Palestinians towns.

Sure but Mijdal is a town that has been icluded by the the growing city of Ashkelon. Furthermore in its present day it isnt in possesion of the Palestinian authority, and neither is it included within the 1967 boundaries, nor the armistice line. Zeq 15:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Crusader period History

I rewrote the Crusader history section for Ashkelon because i thought it was unacceptable considering that this was an important city during that period. I'll do the Roman and Byzantine history at a later date. Hera52 17:51, 01 July 2007

Fair use rationale for Image:AshkelonLogo.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 18:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Stop anti Israeli propaganda on this page.

Stop declaring lies based on propaganda books about the city of Ashkelon. Whoever is responsible for this page should not allow people to write fake contest under disguise of quoting serious books.

Stop anti Israeli propaganda on this page.

Stop declaring lies based on propaganda books about the city of Ashkelon. Whoever is responsible for this page should not allow people to write fake context under disguise of quoting serious books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Creativityisme (talk • contribs) 04:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Major POV Issues

This article has major POV issues, particularly in the Modern History section. If the information is verifiable, it needs to be worded much differently. I have not seen such a bad case of NPOV on Wikipedia in quite a while.

If only every Wikipedia article had "a bad case of NPOV"... ;-) -- ChrisO (talk) 08:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

We really need an audio file for the Hebrew pronunciation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.229.54.25 (talk) 06:02, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Persian period

The Persian period is missing, including the amazing dog cemetery that is the largest ancient burial place for dogs ever found. Someone please add! Zero^talk 11:18, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

List of rulers

From the lede: "In the course of its history, it has been ruled by the Canaanites, the Philistines, the Israelites, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Greeks, the Phoenicians, the Romans, the Persians, the Egyptians, the Muslims, the British and the Crusaders."

Which "Muslims" is this talking about? Given that all the rulers listed are nations/states/specific ethnic groups, shouldn't "Muslims" be replaced with whichever specific Muslim nation(s)/state(s)/people(s) were ruling it.

Also, what British rule is it talking about? I could see no other mention of the British in the article. Does it mean the early 20th century Palistinian Mandate (in which case why is it listed before the Crusaders), or something else? Wardog (talk) 11:10, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

That's a good point. "British" in this region is synonymous with the mandate, I moved it to last. As Saladin's rule is usually referred to as Egyptian, this leaves "Muslim" to be the Ottoman Empire. I corrected it as such. The lead still needs work, it is too cumbersome and repeats too much material from later in the page. I will correct it later today if someone doesn't beat me to it. --Muhandes (talk) 11:54, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Forgot something. Maybe the Mamluks should be mentioned. I'll look into it later today. --Muhandes (talk) 11:57, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Benjamin of Tudela, explain deletion

I deleted:

Around 1163 Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela visited Ashkelon and found about 200 rabbinate Jews living there.<ref>^ 'Early Travels in Palestine, comprising the narratives of Arculf, Willibald, Bernard, Saewulf, Sigurd, Benjamin of Tudela, Sir John Maundeville, De la Brocquiere, and Maundrell. Editor Dr. Thomas Wright. 1848. pub. Bohn, London. page 87. 'This city is very large and handsome'.</ref>

Reason: This is a mistake. What Benjamin wrote was "From there it is five parasangs to Palmid, which is Ashdod of the Philistines, now in ruins; no Jews dwell there. Thence it is two parasangs to Ashkelonah or New Askelon, which Ezra the priest built by the sea. It was originally called Bene Berak. The place is four parasangs distant from the ancient ruined city of Askelon. New Askelon is a large and fair place, and merchants come thither from all quarters, for it is situated on the frontier of Egypt. About 200 Rabbanite Jews dwell here, at their head being R. Zemach, R. Aaron, and R. Solomon; also about forty Karaites, and about 300 Cuthim." So Benjamin was describing a place quite some distance from Ashkelon. Four parasangs is about 22 km, greater than the distance from Ashkelon to Ashdod. Zero^talk 23:57, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

On the other hand it could be that Benjamin was mistaken when writing "The place is four parasangs distant from the ancient ruined city of Askelon." It would be original research to sort this out ourselves; I found a modern source which does interpret the place as Ashkelon. Zero^talk 00:33, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I think Benjamin of Tudela is mistaking the ruins of Mayunas Ashkelon, which is was a Byzantine town/port somewhat north of the ancient tell, with that of the original tell. Furthermore he talks about karaites being present in ( new Ashkelon ) which thus must be the ancient tell, if we deduct it from karaite sources in Ashkelon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.67.201.103 (talk) 13:14, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Materials

Relevant sources for this article:

• http://www.jpost.com/LocalIsrael/AroundIsrael/Article.aspx?id=195916

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ynhockey (talk • contribs)

History: eras missing

Greetings,

The heading says "Roman" era, but what is mentioned is Persian, Greek, and Roman "eras".

Also, not much of the "Roman" or Byzantine eras is actually discussed.

Then, there's no mention of the first Islamic conquest in the 600s A.D.

76.17.118.157 (talk) 02:43, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Recent Discoveries

Perhaps the kind people of wikipedia could include information (under "Landmarks") about the recent discovery of a Roman Era Statue, a ruined bath house,and a ruined mosaics. This was after a storm hit Askelon's Beach around December 15 2010. I found it on The CNN website. Sorry, no link. Thanks NDGKH (talk) 00:51, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Benny Morris and the "State of Israel" section

A user at IP address 129.98.208.150 added, at the top of that section of the article, a comment saying:

(This narrative reflects the view of revisionist historian Benny Morris, and has not been verified as fact)

There is no way I will get involved with an Israel–Palestine argument, but since I removed the commentary from the article itself, I thought it fair to post the IP editor's complaint on the talk page. If anyone else sees the use of Morris as a problem, here's the place to discuss it. A. Parrot (talk) 23:31, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

User:Honesty51 added "The following represents the opinion of historian Benny Morris", which is practically the same thing. Do you know a good way to tell the user that adding that commentary is not appropriate on Wikipedia? David1217 (talk) 22:43, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

The Arab village of al-Majdal or al-Majdal Asqalan...

Is there a reliable source for the Arab village being called al-Majdal Asqalan? I don't think I've seen it called anything except al-Majdal. Of course many authors have noted the ancient name parenthetically after naming al-Majdal, but that doesn't count. Zero^talk 22:51, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm still unsatisfied by this being present without a source. Also, Al-Jura was much closer to the site of ancient Ascalon than al-Majdal was, it is almost missing from this article. Zero^talk 22:31, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Well,medieval Arabic usage might often have qualified al-Majdal with 'Ashqalān in order to discriminate it from Majdal Yābā.

• The linked name is used in Ami Ayalon, Reading Palestine: Printing and Literacy, 1900-1948, University of Texas Press,p.53 cites letters appearing in the al-Hilal newspaper years for the interwar period from readers in Majdal-'Asqalan, and parentheses are not employed. In his bibliography p.188 he cited 'Abd al-Rahim Ahmad Husayn's Qinat madinah:al-madjdal wa'-asqalan,(Beirut 1987).
• Moshe Sharon Corpus Inscriptionum Arabicarum Palaestinae(Addendum. Squeezes in the Max van Berchem Collection) ‎BRILL 2007 p.32 lists an inscription from 1375-6 C.E. that might derive from the mosque built in Majdal 'Asqalān (Majdal-'Asqalān in his index p.186 )around 1300CE.
• In a memorial book for the town of Majdal 'Aqalan, a photo is glossed with the caption:'Majdal 'Asqalan: 17 martyrs of the 1936 revolt,' cited by Rochelle Davis, 'Mapping the Past, Re-creating the Homeland: Memories Village Places in pre-1948 Palestine,' in Ahmad H. Sa'di, Lila Abu-Lughod (eds.) Nakba: Palestine, 1948, and the Claims of Memory, Columbia University Press, pp.53-75, p.62.Nishidani (talk) 10:10, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Ok, that's enough evidence to justify inclusion of Majdal Asqalan. One reason I was skeptical (and remain puzzled) is that there was another village Al-Jura situated much closer to the ruins of ancient Ashkelon than al-Majdal was. Al-Jura was almost adjacent to the ruins, but al-Majdal was 4km from them. Moreover, al-Jura had been there a very long time (in 1596 census, etc). So why is al-Majdal rather than al-Jura written up as the modern successor of Asqalan? Maybe just because it was large and famous compared to al-Jura? Zero^talk 19:10, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Probably because Sayf ad-Din Salar al-Mansuri an-Nasiri built a notable mosque in Majdal, and not at Jura. Geographical orientation was diff'rent them days, a landscape was sacred or profane, and what was notable was determined by the monuments that marked the songlines. Or sumfen along them there lines, guv. Will keep pies eeled however to see if this can be finessed along the lines you suggest.Nishidani (talk) 19:39, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

A fine theory, except that the mosque of Ali's head was also much closer to al-Jura than to al-Majdal. I have another theory: the association is only because Israeli Ashkelon was originally seeded with the buildings of al-Majdal (though it has long since encompassed both locations). Zero^talk 20:43, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Hm. I dunno whether I feel more like Dolly Dyer or Frank Partridge in this exchange, Barry. My only problem is that Salar's mosque in Majdal-'Asqalan is dated ca. 1300, two centuries before records speak of al-Jura. You're probably right, but like 90% of the problems we encounter here, the solution lies in Arabic books, only 1% of whose historical details seeps into foreign languages, ahimé.Nishidani (talk) 22:15, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

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mentioned in the Bible?

Zep 2:4 For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up

Should not this be noted? Yes, or no? Why, or why not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.47.87.16 (talk) 19:50, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Ascalon

The Byzantine section is using Ascalon - any reason? jde 188.164.224.203 (talk) 15:49, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Lost Children of Roman Ashkelon

Programme on Discovery History 28.06.2015: "Exploring the possibility that child murder was common in the ancient world, following the discovery of a mass grave containing 100 skeletons in the sewers of a Roman bath house." jde188.164.224.203 (talk) 16:03, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

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Occupied Ashkelon in 1948

I can nowhere find source that Morris claimed that Ashkelon had been "occupied in 1948"Ashkelon is not occupied under international law. I proposed a neutral wording like "taken" which does not have legal connotation.Tritomex (talk) 19:41, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

The first page of the source refers to "the occupying Israeli force". It was in the Arab section under the partition plan. Whether it is considered occupied or not today is entirely irrelevant. Zero^talk 23:55, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

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History, destruction 604 BCE, "citation needed"

A citation is required, at this point: "As it was the last of the Philistine cities to hold out against Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar II. When it fell in 604 BC, burnt and destroyed and its people taken into exile, the Philistine era was over."

The destruction on the city in 604 BCE by Nebuchadnezzar II can be found in the Babylonian Chronicles (BM 21946 obv. 18-20), edited by Wiseman 1961 (first ed. 1956), p. 68f. with notes at p. 85 and time table at p. 47. This at least partly covers the statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.245.118.30 (talk) 12:04, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

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Citation needed tag needed in first section.

In the first section, the phrase -the remaining Arabs were deported by the 1950s. There is no reference. Whether people left on their own accord, or were forcibly deported is an extremely important distinction and without any reference, I find it doubtful that the number of people who left on their own accord and the people who were deported is known which such certainty to make an absolute statement like that. Eframgoldberg (talk) 01:58, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

It said "evicted" rather than "deported", but "deported" is more correct as they were sent to Gaza. By the style guidelines, the lead section does not need citations if those are provided by the body of the article. You can find them in the State of Israel section. Zero^talk 04:06, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Update to the Mayor of Ashkelon

As of 2018-19, the mayor is no longer Itamar Shimoni, Tomer Glam was elected mayor in the 2018 regional elections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Egormat1 (talk • contribs) 20:12, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Please add under notable residents ..

• Diana Vaisman (born 1998), Belarusian-born Israeli sprinter

Hieroglyphic name

Hello. I ask permission to add the Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic name of Ashkelon to the article under the heading of 'Canaanite settlement' with references from hieroglyphic dictionaries. --CaeserKaiser (talk) 14:13, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Lead

Do we need such details about the 1948 war in the lead? Zarcademan123456 (talk) 07:25, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

The section on Husayn's Shrine could be specific

The Landmarks section goes: "When his remains were later discovered on the hospital grounds, funds from the Shi'ite Ismaili sect in India were used to construct a marble prayer area, and it is visited by Shiite pilgrims from India and Pakistan."

The Shi'a sect that rebuilt is the Dawoodi Bohras under the tutelage of Mohammed Burhanuddin. The pilgrims visit not only from India and Pakistan, but also places like the UK, Yemen, US, and East Africa.

Ref: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barzilai_Medical_Center#Husayn_shrine

Ref (pages 30 to 34): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301537484_Vicissitudes_of_a_Holy_Place_Construction_Destruction_and_Commemoration_of_Mashhad_Husayn_in_Ascalon#citations Murtaza.aliakbar (talk) 11:04, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

I have changed the name of the maqam from the ridiculous "Maqam al-Nabi al-Husayn" to the more common "Maqam al-Imam al-Husayn". Nobody claims that al-Husayn was a profet (Nabi), while the Shi'a consider him the third Imam. Sometimes the mosque/grave is also called "Mash-had al-Husayn".

A google search for "Maqam al-Nabi al-Husayn" in Arabic script did not provide a single hit.

No results found for "مَقامُ النبي الحسين".

The good old Meron Rapoport had it wrong this time.

Jokkmokks-Goran (talk) 09:54, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 May 2020

In the opening paragraph, add "Israelite" before and after "Philistine". The Israelite's evolved out of the Canaanites, therefore they should come before Philistines. The Philistine's, who were likely a Greek related people who came from the sea supplanted the Israelite's for a few centuries before themselves being assimilated into the Iron Age Israelite culture. Therefore, Israelite should come after Philistine as well. Also, Persians should come before the Hasmonean's, Greek's and Roman's. Jaketheforestdude (talk) 20:29, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:35, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 June 2020

Someone please remove the image recently added which is repeated in this section.--Aroma Stylish (talk) 03:28, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

 Done RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 16:54, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Please add as notable person

• Deniz Khazaniuk (born 1994), tennis player

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 October 2020 (2)

Please add External Link:

• English information on Ashkelon—Ashkelon Volunteers

Please remove dead External Link:

• Pictures of Ashkelon—Holy Land Pictures Rehovot (talk) 08:01, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

To editor Rehovot:  done, and thank you very much – good catch! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 09:31, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Philistine settlement

Regarding the citation needed here: "When it fell in 604 BCE, burnt and destroyed and its people taken into exile, the Philistine era was over.[citation needed]"

The Babylonian Chronicle reads as follows:

He (Nebuchadrezzar) marched to the city of Ashkelon and captured it in the month of Kislev. He captured its king and plundered it and carried off [spoil from it . . .] He turned the city into a mound and heaps of ruins and then in the month of Sebat he marched back to Babylon. [BM 21946, 18–20] Babylonian Chronicle, D. J. Wiseman (1956:68, 85)

There is also extensive discussion in the archaeological report Stager LE, Master DM, Schloen DJ. (2011) Ashkelon 3: The Seventh Century B.C. Available here: https://hmane.harvard.edu/publications/ashkelon-3 --RasakiA (talk) 12:00, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Philistine pronunciation

I cannot find any source for the Philistine language pronunciation *ʾĪšqālān of 𐤀𐤔𐤒𐤋𐤍‎. If there is no source for this pronunciation, it needs to be removed from the page. Antiquistik (talk) 00:15, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Long-term history deleted

In September 2021 2022, the following was deleted by Nableezy:

In July 2010, a Grad rocket hit a residential area in Ashkelon, damaging nearby cars and an apartment complex.

It seems to be part of the history of the town and had been in the article since 2010.XavierItzm (talk) 11:35, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

It shouldn't have been in the article to begin with, and I support its removal now. As an event in the history of this city, it is way too minor. Zero^talk 11:46, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Ashkelon is an ancient city, and you think a 2010 rocket strike is "part of the history of the town"? Thats just silly, and it doesnt matter how long its been in the article. nableezy - 16:02, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

The same goes for a bunch of the material in the post-state section. It should summarize Ashkelon's involvement in the conflict, not give a blow by blow. Ill try to fix that. nableezy - 18:02, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

References

History moved to Tel Ashkelon

@Onceinawhile: Once again I protest the removal of virtually all the pre-modern history to another article at a non-intuitive title. What is the purpose of this? Nobody says "Tel Ashkelon" in crusades historiography. Srnec (talk) 01:30, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

For example, when I click "What links here", the top links are:

• Aphrodite
• Amalric of Jerusalem
• Aimery of Cyprus
• Aeclanum
• Aelia Capitolina
• Book of Jeremiah
• Book of Judges
• Books of Samuel
• Book of Job
• Book of Zechariah
• Book of Zephaniah
• Black Death
• Damascus

The city they mention is what is now covered under the name Tel Ashkelon. Who is going to check the ~2000 incoming links? Only a fraction of these articles could even use the "naturally disambiguated" title Tel Ashkelon. Srnec (talk) 01:38, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

I see both perspectives here. There is certainly a historical discontinuity here between old Ascalon and the new Ashkelon, both temporally, geographically and demographically. The old city was destroyed in 1270 and remained ruined for the best part of 700 years. At the same time, Srnec is right that the split of this content makes for a bit of a mess link wise and will continue to do so as long as people continue to link to the base name, which they will. Might it be worth considering moving this page to Ashkelon (city), having Tel Ashkelon at Ashkelon (ancient city), and having the disambiguation page at the main name space? The history of this name is deep - see Ngrams for the voluminous pre-1948 mentions - and it is equally true that none of the links above are intended to link to a modern geography article about a city; they all relate to the history of the pre-1270 pentapolis metropolis. Given that history, I'm not sure we have a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:00, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I agree with both Srnec and Iskandar:

• Agree a review of the incoming links will be worthwhile. I am happy to do this once the discussion settles, just as I have done elsewhere. I thought best to wait to see if anyone wanted to discuss first – particularly since I agree that the article name(s) may not be quite right yet. Tel Ashkelon is the official Israeli name for the site, but certainly it is not the common name for it (at least not when writing about history)
• This is a uniquely interesting situation; I am not sure of any perfect precedent. The core history of modern Ashkelon is not historical Ashkelon but historical Majdal (Migdal). That the name Ashkelon was resuscitated by the modern city of Migdal after lying dormant for 700 years needs careful treatment here.

Onceinawhile (talk) 10:51, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

@Srnec: do you have a preference for the name of the article about the historical site (currently at Tel Ashkelon? Putting aside the Migdal renaming point, there is a parallel with the other discussion at Caesarea / Caesarea Maritima.

As a new article I don't think it needs an WP:RM to move it, if we can agree something in this thread. Onceinawhile (talk) 09:12, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

I suppose, parallel to the Caeserea logic and per non-parenthetical geographical naming preferences, Ashkelon, Israel for one (already exists), and Ashkelon (ancient city) or a variation on that for the other, perhaps? Iskandar323 (talk) 10:06, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

That would match other situations up the coast, for example these three related articles: Tel Dor / Dor, Israel / Tantura. Onceinawhile (talk) 11:19, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

I would like to join the same protest. Please revert. It's too confusing right now. IMO, it is possible to consider a city to be a continuation of another if it occupies approximately the same location and bears the same name as its historical predecessor. Tombah (talk) 16:04, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Revert what? Do you think the article Tel Ashkelon should be deleted? Do you think more than half of this article should be about the history of Tel Ashkelon? Onceinawhile (talk) 16:55, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

It's not approximately the same location and there is zero continuation. Ashkelon was founded 4km away in an entirely different urban setting 700 years later after the ancient city's destruction. It obviously only bears the name of the ancient city as a result of intentional nostalgic naming, not any continuation. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:52, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 February 2023

change the description to remove the mention of Ashkelon being a “ancient Levantine metropolis”. Why? because other cities in Israel, including it’s northern neighbour Ashdod do not have a description that mentions their ancient history so why should Ashkelon? even then many of the ancient philistine cities were important in ancient times including but not limited to Ashkelon so this seems a bit odd. 2A02:14F:2:C3BE:9598:D9B2:A23C:7E59 (talk) 06:26, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

• Done, but mainly because the modern city and the ancient city are not, in fact, co-located. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:56, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

  Speaking of which, the introduction seems to have an error.

  "The modern city is named after the ancient seaport of Ashkelon, which was destroyed in 1270 and whose remains can now be seen at the archaeological site known as Tel Ashkelon on the southeastern edge of the modern metropolis."

  The archaeological site is generally southwest of the modern city. The ruins are in a national park. https://en.parks.org.il/reserve-park/ashkelon-national-park/ 2601:445:601:6BEA:91E0:15BF:CED5:91CC (talk) 16:57, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

  Oops, yep. Fixed. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:42, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

ERORR: Warning by hamas to the people of ashkelon

There was no worning via SMS to the people of the city before the rocket attack and the source provided by even state that: "In response to the enemy's crime of displacing our people and forcing them to flee their homes in several areas of the Gaza Strip, we give the residents of the occupied city of Ashkelon a deadline to leave before 5 p.m.," Abu Obeida, the spokesperson for Hamas's Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades said in a post on Telegram.

Hamas upliaded the "warning" to their telegram page, not SMS to the citizens they have targeted. 2A0D:6FC2:5FA0:6000:C53B:A30B:5483:E8D0 (talk) 14:06, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

@2A0D:6FC2:5FA0:6000:C53B:A30B:5483:E8D0

Yes, this seems like either intentional misinformation or just a simple lack of care for the facts.

"Sent an SMS" Implies that they sent a message to alert all the civilians in the area, but instead they posted on their private telegram page 2A0D:6FC2:67A0:0:D7A:C568:67F4:E2CE (talk) 14:37, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Changed SMS message to Telegram, thanks. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 15:12, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

In the future, if you would like a change to be made to a protected page, please use the edit request wizard. Thanks, ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 15:18, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, didnt know that 2A0D:6FC2:5FA0:6000:C53B:A30B:5483:E8D0 (talk) 18:42, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Innacuracy

"On October 10, 2023, Abu Obaida, spokesperson for Hamas, warned all citizens of Ashkelon to evacuate before 5:00 P.M. local time via a post to his Telegram channel. Once the deadline hit, Hamas launched hundreds of missiles towards Ashkelon."

This did not happen the cited Yahoo News source has nothing to do with this. Icantthinkofaname22 (talk) 00:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

It's all in the source except for the "hundreds". I replaced that. Zero^talk 04:10, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

• What I think should be changed (format using

  −

  Afridar is a [[portmanteau]] (blend word) for [[South Africa]], the country its first inhabitants came from, ''[[Wikt:דרום|darom]]'' meaning 'south' in Hebrew.

  +

  Afridar is a [[portmanteau]] (blend word) for [[South Africa]], the country where the company who built the neighborhood was established, 'and 'Amidar'', the housing company which was established the same year by the Israeli government.

  ):
• It is wrong. The "dar" Has nothing to do with "south" but with the Hebrew word meaning "living in", and is a common suffix for construction companies in Isreal - eg https://www.linkedin.com/company/ashdar-building-company/?originalSubdomain=il :
• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Ayala Levin (2019) South African ‘know-how’ and Israeli ‘facts of life’: the planning of Afridar, Ashkelon, 1949–1956, Planning Perspectives, 34:2, 285-309, DOI: 10.1080/02665433.2017.1389657 To link to this article:  https://doi.org/10.1080/02665433.2017.1389657

Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 20:44, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

References

 Not done: Kentucky Rain24, can you provide a quote from the T&F source that supports this? My reading of the source is that it doesn't seem to mention any etymology. Please reopen this edit request afterwards. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 15:25, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Here is the quote from the article I mentioned above- it shows the original plan, when the company was already established and named had nothing to do with building in the South, but panned to build in the North (Haifa), it mentions South africa, and the partnership with Gov't agency "Amidar" :

"the South African Jewish Appeal decided to allocate a million pounds for the construction of immigrant housing in Israel, to help facilitate holocaust survivors’ integration into the young country’s social and economic life.Footnote17 Since housing was the Israeli government’s top priority, this initiative was duly welcomed by the Israeli state. To this end, the Appeal set up the Afridar Corporation in partnership with the housing company Amidar, which was established the same year by the Israeli government. The Appeal initially envisioned its contribution as a suburb on the outskirts of Haifa " — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kentucky Rain24 (talk • contribs) 16:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't mention etymology explicitly, but it's clear that the current claim in the article about "south" is wrong (and does not have a source).

I have deleted the unsourced etymology claim. I don't see a clear source for what you want to add either, so I'm not adding it. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 23:08, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, that's a start. I'll try to find an explicit source for what is fairly common knowledge in Israel Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 02:16, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Train station

Please add to this article the fact that the town has a train station with passenger service. 2001:A62:14EF:1002:3D41:7897:34D8:A0CB (talk) 15:06, 11 June 2024 (UTC)