Talk:Boston University

Pages for schools/colleges within BU

Some of the colleges and schools (listed in the "Colleges and Schools" category) should really have their own pages. Particularly CGS and MET (2 programs within MET have their own pages, but MET itself does not). These are important parts of BU and have notable alumni. Hbomberman (talk) 21:25, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Methodist affiliation

I'm unable to find any sources stating that Boston University has a current affiliation with the Methodist church, I can find many mentions of it historically, but several that state it isn't the case currently. Could I get some clarification? Falcon8765 ^(TALK) 00:48, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Sure, please check the ones that are in the article now. They are current sources. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 02:06, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Anupam, every link you used is an outdated source. I will detail why the links are outdated below. The sources I use are the most up to date, from the government and, school itself.

Your links.

3.) Separated brethren: a review of Protestant, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox & other religions in the United States". Our Sunday Visitor.These do not state the proposition that BU is affiliated with the Methodist church whatsoever. It merely suggests that there is a Methodist seminary in Boston, and makes no mention of the University itself. Additionally, the author fails to state any supporting evidence to back up her proposition.

4.) "Boston University". International Association of Methodist-related Schools, Colleges, and Universities (IAMSCU). I have several complaints about this source. First, it is outdated. Second, the source does not state the proposition that BU in its entirely is methodist school. It only states that historically the school of theology within the school is associated with the methodist church. It does not go to state the entire university is affiliated with the church.

5.) "United Methodist schools score high in rankings" This source is outdated from 2004. This source also does not state that BU is at all affiliated with the Methodist church. There is a major difference between being related and being affiliated with which I believe is the source of your confusion. Related means having some sort of past contact or past interaction with(Which is true in the case of BU, originally founded as a methodist seminary but this is no longer the case). Affiliation means that the school administration has officially received permission from the church to establish a school based on the church's teachings. BU does not fall under the category of being affiliated with the church.

6.) "Cambridge University Student Union International 2003-2004" The author makes an assertion with no support for his assertion what so ever. He makes a statement, and does not cite any sources as to where he obtained the information to make his opinion. This can not be used as a verifiable source.

My Links.

3.) http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=boston+uni&s=all&id=164988#general This is the official department of education report compiled by the United States government about Universities. Universities are required to submit information to the government for the government to compile their report. The government report clearly states that the University's religious affiliation is not applicable. Meaning that BU has no religious affiliation. Additionally, this source is unbiased and should be held in higher regard than the sources you state from methodist books and methodist websites.

4.) http://www.topuniversities.com/institution/boston-university This website is run by QS a nonprofit that ranks universities from around the world. The website states that BU is non-sectarian which means having no religious affiliation. This report was released in 2011 which is more recent than any of the links you give for support. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bowjangles (talk • contribs) 17:42, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Please gain consensus for changing the version of the article from where it stands right now. The sources mentioned in the article are not outdated and delineate the fact that Boston University is affiliated with The United Methodist Church. For example, the International Association of Methodist-related Schools, Colleges, and Universities lists Boston University as being affiliated with The United Methodist Church (see link). Moreover, the institution even has a School of Theology which is used to train ministers in The United Methodist Church. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 02:01, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Wait, who says the version you listed has a consensus? The sources you listed are biased and do not speak for the university in general. All of the sources you cite are related to the Methodist church. The sources where I get my information are unbiased,third-party independent sources. Additionally, please look at my explanation of "related to" and affiliated with. There is a difference. I think this is the source of your confusion. As a student at the University, I know the school has a school of theology. The school of theology is a college within the larger university. The school of theology does not speak for the university as a whole. I hope this helps. Yours truly, bowjangles^Talk 07:01, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello User:Bowjangles, I would foremost suggest that you take heed to the warning given on your talk page and first discuss your proposed changes to the article, rather than removing information from the article. You have already been reverted by another user as well. I found an source from Boston University itself, acknowledging its affiliation to The United Methodist Church:

Boston University has been historically affiliated with the United Methodist Church since 1839 when the Newbury Biblical Institute, the first Methodist seminary in the United States was established in Newbury, Vermont.

As such, Boston University states that it is affiliated with The United Methodist Church, which in turn acknowledges the same affiliation. This solves any concerns you might have had, although the previous sources adequately buttressed the statement. Moreover, the affiliation is also recognized by the International Association of Methodist-related Schools, Colleges, and Universities, as well as by several reliable tertiary sources, such as The Cambridge University Student Union International. I would also like to point out that the Education Encyclopedia states:

Although most are liberal arts colleges with enrollments between 800 and 2,000 students, church-related higher education also includes large research universities (Boston University, Notre Dame, for example), medical colleges, professional schools, two-year colleges, theological seminaries, and Bible colleges. Many religiously affiliated colleges regularly are highly ranked in various "best colleges" ratings in the United States.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation in this matter. With regards, Anupam^Talk 20:26, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello User:Anupam, I would suggest that you stop threatening people. I have discussed changes to the article and you have been unwilling to admit your mistakes. It seems you are highly biased towards including this incorrect information about the school. Why? What reason do you have for including false information about the school? To settle this dispute I emailed the school and received an answer from the admissions department. I suggest you do the same as well. "BU began its existence as a Methodist seminary, and Marsh Chapel sits at the heart of campus, but these days we do not have an official religious affiliation. For more information about religious life at BU, I encourage you to visit the Religious Life section of our Admissions website." Bode Wilson, Admissions Coordinator, Boston University Undergraduate Admissions Phone: (617) 353-2300. Admissions@bu.edu. Anupam the cites you list speak only of the school of theology not the entire university. Why are you unwilling to accept that you are wrong? :Thanks for your understanding and cooperation in this matter. With regards, bowjangles^Talk 13:26, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Bowjangles you have not been threatened. You have been warned. If you continue edit warring against multiple editors you will be blocked. We operate on consensus, not truth. You have not persuaded any editors to your position. I invite you to keep discussing the merits of your issue and stop edit warring. – Lionel ^(talk) 20:10, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree with User:Lionelt's comments here - you must gain consensus to change the longstanding version of the article. Also, clandestinely removing relevant talk page banners is considered vandalism. Wikipedia operates according to the principle of WP:V: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true." At this time, several reliable sources, including the websites for Boston University and The United Methodist Church acknowledge the affiliation. Today, I found another link from the Office of the Provost at Boston University acknowledging its affiliation with The United Methodist Church:

The University Scholar/Teacher of the Year Award, established by the General Board of Higher Education and Ministry of The United Methodist Church, is conferred at colleges and universities historically affiliated with it.

And no, I am not wrong. This website, along with the previous website from BU that I provided is not from the seminary but is from the university in general. In fact, the link is coming from the Media Relations section of the general website. The supposed email you provided from the admissions office clerk does not qualify here as a published reliable source, while the information provided by the Media Relations as well as the Office of the Provost, does. This information is further corroborated by the fact that The United Methodist Church also acknowledges the affiliation, as does the International Association of Methodist-related Schools, Colleges, and Universities. Thanks for your understanding, Anupam^Talk 21:05, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree that editors should not change long-standing articles without consensus. However, I would not be so quick to dismiss Bowjangles' point just because his methods are questionable. The references you listed cite an historical affiliation which is not the same as a current affiliation. It has already been stipulated by all editors on this page that there is an historical connection between the Methodist Church and BU. I think we should open up a general discussion on the current status of the relationship between the Methodist Church and BU and proceed from there. Dave (djkernen)|Talk to me|Please help! 16:40, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Dear User:Djkernen, the user in question removed the statement and references from the article completely, which was unacceptable. I would be open to a compromise by using BU's wording and inserting the word "historically" before the word "affiliated" in the article. What do you think of this idea? I look forward to your comments. With regards, Anupam^Talk 18:04, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Additionally, after emailing The United Methodist Church, I received the following response:

Hello Anupam, Thank you for writing. Boston University is a United Methodist-related school. See the list for the Northeastern region on the General Board of Higher Education and Ministry website: http://www.gbhem.org/site/c.lsKSL3POLvF/b.5392245/k.9EB1/Schools_by_Region.htm

When one clicks on the reference, "Boston University" is listed as a "Four Year Institution" that is affiliated with The United Methodist Church. I hope this helps, Anupam^Talk 16:33, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

This source [2] demonstrates the Methodist affiliation and goes so far as to name the current president as a contact on p. 9.– Lionel ^(talk) 07:44, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Lionelt. After reading you source that you recently upload does not support the proposition you state, "Boston University is listed as a Four Year Institution that is affiliated with The United Methodist Church". The link you cited only states that the school of theology at Boston University is affiliated with the United Methodist Church. See my previous posts where I explain the difference between the school of theology which is only a small college within the larger University. The University in general retains no religious affiliation. You can not support your statement with the link you cite. (bowjangles) —Preceding undated comment added 18:37, 11 November 2011 (UTC).

Did you read the entire Directory? BU and the BU School of Theology are both listed separately.– Lionel ^(talk) 03:08, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi all.

I have done some more research on the issue and have found several sources that support that the university has no religious affiliation. Additionally, I called the University and spoke with a Mr. Bode Wilson in admissions to confirm what I had found online. The new sources that I have not seen previously in this discussion are as follows, Princeton review, U.S. news and, the college board. All of the sources are independent non-biased sources who get their information directly from the University. The contact information for Mr. Bode Wilson, Admissions Coordinator, Boston University Undergraduate Admissions, Phone: (617) 353-2300.

Additionally, I don't see the reliance of having the "historically" related to the methodist church within the first paragraph of the page. If it isn't currently related why does it need to be in the first paragraph? It would be better suited to go under the historical information subsection.--Robocop729 (talk) 18:34, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi Robocop729, I called Boston University to confirm that they were indeed had no religious affiliation. The person I spoke with in admissions did confirm that they had no religious affiliation. I also agree that the sources you list support the proposition that the school has no religious affiliation. Princeton review, U.S. news and, the college board. Also the sources listed by bowjangles includeing the U.S. Department of Education QS Top university's support the school not having any religious affiliation. Most of the sources that others have been using are biased in that they come from the methodist church. Independent sources and sources that come directly from the university should be valued more so than the ones coming directly from the church. I think we are getting close to a consensus on the school not having any religious affiliation, we should consider updating the home page to reflect this.--Heilanpol (talk) 17:50, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Dear User:Mann jess, I am posting here in order to demonstrate that three editors here have spoken in favour of retaining the sentence in the introduction of the article (User:Anupam, User:Djkernen, and User:Lionelt) and have provided several sources for their claims. Only one user has opposed the sentence and edit warred to remove it. This user is User:Bowjangles, who also used the socks User:Robocop729 and User:Heilanpol (refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Bowjangles/Archive). All three accounts are now blocked for this reason. Therefore, there is consensus for keeping the information. If you have any objections, please discuss them here rather than reverting as the article originally contained the sentence. In the mean time, I will notify the blocking administrator of this matter in order that he/she might clarify the situation here. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 04:17, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Dear User:Mann jess, the reviewing administrator has reverted the newly created sock and has left a message here, which I hope you will read. If you have any objections, please state them here. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 04:46, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Consensus is not a vote, but even if it were, you've left out two other users (and me) who've questioned the affiliation, and we cannot simply invalidate the concerns and sources provided by bowjangles because of a likely connection with a sock. It looks like this is what we have for references:

Sources explicitly stating "No religious affiliation"

• princetonreview
• usnews
• nces.ed.gov

Sources explicitly stating a "historical" affiliation

• BU News

Sources explicitly stating UMC connection to "School of theology"

• BU School of Theology

Other sources

• United Methodist Church: Listed as "United Methodist-related schools". No explicit distinction from school of theology.
• gbhem.org (Published by UMC):
  • 1: This simply puts BU in an unlabeled list. It could be "schools they support", or "places they have an active presence", or it could refer specifically to the school of theology affiliation.
  • 2: Again, no explicit mention. This could be anything.

This seems fairly clear-cut. BU backs up a historical affiliation, and an affiliation with their school of theology, but makes no statement about current affiliation with their main school. The only sources provided to support a current affiliation are published by the UMC and extremely ambiguous, often making no explicit statement. Then, we have 3 independent sources (including the National Center for Education Statistics) explicitly stating "no religious affiliation". We should move the religious affiliation in the infobox and text to Boston University School of Theology, and make mention of a historical connection in the History section. Anything more than that isn't supported by the sources presented thus far.   — Jess· Δ♥ 18:52, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

No. This source clearly demonstrates BU is a Methodist school [3]. The Affiliation must read Methodist. – Lionel ^(talk) 04:22, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Where? And why is gbhem.org a better source than the National Center for Education Statistics?   — Jess· Δ♥ 17:25, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Mann jess, the link User:Lionelt provided lists Boston University and the Boston University School of Theology separately, thus confirming both as being affiliated with The United Methodist Church. Moreover, the website from Boston University states:

Boston University has been historically affiliated with the United Methodist Church since 1839 when the Newbury Biblical Institute, the first Methodist seminary in the United States was established in Newbury, Vermont.

The Office of the Provost at Boston University also acknowledges its affiliation with The United Methodist Church:

The University Scholar/Teacher of the Year Award, established by the General Board of Higher Education and Ministry of The United Methodist Church, is conferred at colleges and universities historically affiliated with it.

The United Methodist Church itself acknowledges this affiliation, as indicated in their website:

Emory University in Atlanta is ranked 20th. Other United Methodist schools on the top national list are Syracuse (N.Y.) University (tied for 52nd); Boston University (tied for 56th); Southern Methodist University, Dallas (tied for 71st); and American University, Washington (tied for 86th).

The affiliation is also acknowledged by The General Board of Higher Education & Ministry, to which the Office of the Provost at Boston University referred to above:

Boston University

One Sherborn Street
Boston MA 02215

Phone: (617) 353-2000

In addition, the International Association of Methodist-related Schools, Colleges, and Universities also lists Boston University as a "United Methodist" school (also note that a search on the website for the IAMSCU yields a separate entry for the Boston University School of Theology):

BOSTON UNIVERSITY
Dr. Robert A. Brown, President
One Sherborn Street
Boston, MA 02215
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Main Phone: (617) 353-2000
Fax: (617) 353-3278
Primary Email: rabrown@bu.edu
Web: http://www.sthweb.bu.edu
Denomination: United Methodist
Year established: 1839
Student enrollment: 31,698
Baccalaureate

Post-baccalaureate

Several other secondary sources also acknowledge the affiliation of Boston University to The United Methodist Church. For example, the Education Encyclopedia states:

Although most are liberal arts colleges with enrollments between 800 and 2,000 students, church-related higher education also includes large research universities (Boston University, Notre Dame, for example), medical colleges, professional schools, two-year colleges, theological seminaries, and Bible colleges. Many religiously affiliated colleges regularly are highly ranked in various "best colleges" ratings in the United States.

Also, Cambridge University Student Union International speaks of the relationship as well:

Emory University, an academic institution of higher education that is under the auspices of the United Methodist Church (Duke University, Boston University, Northwestern University are among other elite universities belonging to the United Methodist Church

In addition, the reference Separated brethren: a review of Protestant, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox & other religions in the United States offers the following text:

Among Protestant denominations, Methodists take first place in hospitals and colleges. Some of their one hundred colleges and universities have all but severed ties with the denominations, but others remain definitely Methodist: Syracuse, Boston, Emory, Duke, Drew, Denver, and Southern Methodist. The church operates three hundred sixty schools and institutions overseas. Methodists established Goodwill Industries in 1907 to help handicapped persons help themselves by repairing and selling old furniture and clothes. The United Methodist Church runs seventy-two hospitals in the United States.

Of course, there are also references that state that Boston University is nonsectarian; this however, does not nullify the affiliation of Boston University to The United Methodist Church. This is why the sentence in the article states: "The university identifies itself as nonsectarian,[14][15] although it maintains an affiliation with The United Methodist Church." In addition, in your reply, you stated that "you've left out two other users." Who did I leave out? User:Djkernen, User:Lionelt, and myself (User:Anupam) all have acknowledged the affiliation. The administrator User:Courcelles stated that “Obviously, in determining consensus, the trio of sockpuppets can be ignored.” These sockpuppets are User: Bowjangles, User: Robocop729, and User:Heilanpol, all of whom are indefinitely blocked. In light of this information, as well as the several references I provided, the information will stand in the article. Thanks, Anupam^Talk 02:07, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Umm... what? Accusing me of edit warring and demanding I discuss the matter is unwarranted, given I have not reverted and am currently discussing. I'm not sure how to make my reply clearer, but you've apparently skipped over a good portion of it. Many of the sources you've identified state that the school has a historical affiliation, which is apparent and should be reflected in the article, but that does not indicate a current affiliation. Many other sources list BU in an unlabeled list, which is clearly not helpful. Many of the remainder fail to make a distinction between BU as a whole and the school of theology, where the latter clearly has a current affiliation that should be listed in its article. That takes out your first, second, and fourth ref.

You have now presented a few new sources, which are helpful. Some of those do list "Boston University" as a Methodist school, including two by the UMC (1, 2), one by stateuniversity.com, and another published by the catholic church. Only one of those distinguishes between the main school and the school of theology, but we shouldn't necessarily be quick to disregard the others just because they don't. However, that leaves us with a predicament; we have a few sources saying they are affiliated, and we have a few sources saying there's no affiliation.

Frankly, I am compelled to think there is no current affiliation. All but one of the sources saying otherwise are published by religious organizations, most affiliated with the UMC directly. It also seems likely some of the sources are speaking about the school of theology, or a historical affiliation, when they speak of BU generally, and the source by the National Center for Education Statistics (a part of the Department of Education specifically tasked with this sort of thing) is a very strong one. However, with these new sources, the matter is not so clear cut as it was. From prior experience, it seems this won't go anywhere between the two of us, so perhaps an RfC would be helpful?   — Jess· Δ♥ 05:22, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

In your reply, you stated that "accusing me of edit warring and demanding I discuss the matter is unwarranted." If you could point out the sentence in my last reply where I did that, I would appreciate it because I find no such statements. And no, several of the major references do distinguish between the affiliation concerning Boston University and Boston University School of Theology, including GBHEM and IAMSCU. By the way the International Association of Methodist-related Schools, Colleges, and Universities is not a part of The United Methodist Church, but is an independent organization. I do not think an RfC will be necessary at this time if you're willing to collaborate. Right now, in order to compromise with you, I am suggesting the addition of the word "historic" before the word "affiliation" in the following sentence of the article: "The university identifies itself as nonsectarian, although it maintains an affiliation with The United Methodist Church." How does that sound? With regards, Anupam^Talk 05:57, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

"I am compelled to think there is no current affiliation": what you "think" is irrelevant. Your opinion is meaningless. The encyclopedia is built with verifiable, reliable sources. You cannot pick and choose the source that suits you. All reliable sources must be reflected in the article. What part of this do you not comprehend? – Lionel ^(talk) 08:41, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

@Anupam, sorry, you're right about the EW comment. In the edit view, I misread your previous Nov 29th reply to me where you made those comments as a part of this reply. That explains my bewilderment. However, as for content, "several of the major sources" don't distinguish between BU and the school of theology as you claim. One does, Gbhem, which you've linked to twice. I agree with your compromise insofar as it indicates the historical affiliation in the text I suggested. However, your suggestion doesn't address the infobox. Perhaps you have a suggestion for addressing the infobox which would incorporate all available sources. Unfortunately, I can't think of one.

@Lionelt, I'm not sure where the hostility is coming from on your end. I made a pretty strong case for my suggestion using sources, I didn't just throw out an opinion without content, and I certainly didn't "pick and choose the source that suits me". That does appear to be what you're doing, though; how do you plan to incorporate the nces.gov, usnews and princetonreview sources? I'll reiterate: 1) We have sources saying BU has a historical affiliation, that should be reflected in the article; 2) We have sources saying the school of theology has a current affiliation, that should be reflected in its article; 3) Then we have contrary sources saying BU has a current affiliation, and saying BU has no current affiliation. Since BU says explicitly it's only a historical affiliation, and since the sources saying otherwise are almost all directly involved with the UMC, and since the National Center for Education Statistics (seemingly our strongest source) claims there is no affiliation, it appears the "no affiliation" camp has a stronger case. I'm happy to post an RfC to get opinions from other editors, if that's necessary.   — Jess· Δ♥ 17:51, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

While we certainly should mention that BU was founded by Methodistts (as were many institutions of higher learning; the Church is next to land grants in importance to the development of higher education in the US), they are fundamentally a secular school. Listing UMC as the Religious affiliation misinforms the reader. The school charter explicitly disavows any religious test for the trustees, instructors, or students (Theological Department excepted). The stylistic abomination that is the line of six references should also be fixed. FiveColourMap (talk) 01:03, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Dear Mann jess, thanks for your willingness to compromise; I think adding "historical" will work, as far as the article is concerned. As far as the information box, how about changing the Religious Affiliation section to "The United Methodist Church, Nonsectarian"? I think this compromise should resolve the issue. With regards, Anupam^Talk 01:46, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Is "historical" the right word to use? Or should it be "historic?" I find that the former is overused and misunderstood; it's not too often that we discuss historiography in articles. ElKevbo (talk) 03:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Dear User:ElKevbo, I am fine with the word "historic" too! We can use that word if User:Mann jess does not object. Best wishes, Anupam^Talk 03:25, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

@Anupam, putting "UMC, Nonsectarian" in the infobox doesn't incorporate the multiple sources we have, including our strongest from the NCES, which indicate no affiliation at all. It's unfortunate, but I don't see a way we can handle the infobox without picking one or the other. I'm happy to talk about this more if you feel we'll likely get somewhere, but otherwise I think an RfC to get a broader opinion may be the best step forward.   — Jess· Δ♥ 07:03, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

BTW, it doesn't make sense to "maintain a historic(al) affiliation", so we'll have to do more work with the text than simply adding one word. However, I'm not too concerned with that right now since it's likely we can come up with something workable, so I think we should focus on the infobox wording for the time being.   — Jess· Δ♥ 07:07, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but NCES could be inaccurate. Both The United Methodist Church and Boston University acknowledge an affiliation, as indicated by their respective websites. If you really insist, we could remove the section on religious affiliation from the infobox altogether, although I would prefer to keep it. Let me know. With regards, Anupam^Talk 08:06, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

BU doesn't indicate a current affiliation. The main school indicates a historic affiliation, and the school of theology indicates a current affiliation. Anyway, removing the religious affiliation from the infobox would solve the problem. Then we can expand on this in the body, where there's room for context. Let's do that.   — Jess· Δ♥ 09:25, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I saw your removed the affiliation from the infobox. In the spirit of compromise, I am fine with that. As far as the lede is concerned, I would prefer to use the wording of Boston University: "Boston University has been historically affiliated with the United Methodist Church." You expressed concern about the word "maintains" in the current wording in the lede; in order to address your concerns, I think rewording the sentence to "The university identifies itself as nonsectarian, although it is historically affiliated with The United Methodist Church" will solve this issue. I look forward to your comments before I implement the change. With regards, Anupam^Talk 17:22, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I actually hadn't looked at the nonsectarian sources. Since they come from BU, and are very direct, they are strong sources, and we should make use of them. How about we use your wording, including the nonsectarian bit, but swap the front and back? Your wording is fine. I'll make a few changes to shorten it up a bit, and implement it so you can see what I mean - feel free to let me know what you think.   — Jess· Δ♥ 19:56, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I also cleaned up the refs, as some of them did not back up the assertion of a historic affiliation. One, explicit and from BU, should be sufficient. Also, that second source backing up "nonsectarian" is, itself, referenced to Princeton Review. We should either remove that reference, or (more ideally, I think), link directly to Princeton Review instead. After all, two refs from the same place are no better than 1. I couldn't track down the original Princeton Review article, but perhaps you know of it? Anyway, that should about cover it. Thanks for the help working on this.   — Jess· Δ♥ 20:13, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Lastly, I added an infobox indicating an affiliation with the UMC to Boston University School of Theology. If I've made any mistakes on the details there, please feel free to correct them. All the best,   — Jess· Δ♥ 20:29, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Dear Mann jess, thanks for adding information in the infobox of the Boston University School of Theology. I restored one church reference and moved the nonsectarian reference after the punctuation following that word. Finally, I changed "has been" to "is" since the university is still in existence. Thanks for working with me through this. I hope you have a nice night. With regards, Anupam^Talk 09:28, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

References

Does BC suck or not?

A recent edit removed this paragraph:

Additionally, in the "unofficial" version of the song, often sung by students, the words "Fight! Fight! Fight!" are replaced with "BC sucks!", a nod to the ice hockey rivalry between the two schools.

Do we want to put it back in? It is an interesting tidbit, if true. BU is one of my almae matres but I have never heard that version of the song. OTH I have also never attended a BU sporting event (nor any other sporting event if I could help it). Dave (djkernen)|Talk to me|Please help! 14:42, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Article needs new pics

I just got back from visiting the campus and the pics on here do not do the campus any justice. The Eli Weisel Center for Judaic Studies and the Center for International Relations were gorgeous buildings. As was the BU Castle and the Pub underneath it.

Please add some more flattering pics to this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.164.66.120 (talk) 20:39, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

PR

Parts of this article read as if taken fr/ BU advertising brochures. Plans for future development were pared down, and peacock language has been replaced.Tapered (talk) 18:34, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

local street map

Please add a local street map highlighting the campus area and buildings.-71.174.188.32 (talk) 00:11, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Olympia Dukakis

Is there some special reason that Oscar winner Olympia Dukakis was omitted from the Arts notable Alumni section? There is somebody else who is there that I would be happy to see removed. That name will not be given. Olympia's Oscar was for Best Supporting Actress in Moonstruck. The source for me is IMDB but you probably want to cite the Oscar association pages. She is still active at about age 87 surviving her only spouse who died in early 2018. That alone is a record for people in Hollywood. hhhobbit (talk) 08:38, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Prominent Sporting Alumni of BU

1968 Olympic 400m hurdles gold medalist David Hemery was a student at BU in the 1960s, and a coach in the 1970s and 1980s.

John Thomas attended BU in the early 1960s and he won a silver medal in the Olympic High Jump. He was an assistant track coach at BU during the 1970s.

I don't have references for these athletics or I would have put them in the prominent alumni myself.

Endo999 (talk) 02:18, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

References

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Boston University President Robert A. Brown.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:21, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

BU Trigrams Suggestion

BU has a tradition of using three-letter abbreviations (e.g. FAS, CFA, SAR, MET) for its various schools, and changing them from time to time. To make it easier to decode them, I propose adding two new columns to the table which currently lists only the dates of establishment. One column should show the current official trigram, while the other column should list any previous letter codes used, and possibly what names they once stood for. Reify-tech (talk) 22:20, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Need a campus map

A campus map is needed, showing where each college or academic program is located. A URL referencing an official BU map would be OK. Tziril (talk) 05:34, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Center for Intergrated Life Siences & Engineering (CILSE).jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:26, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Undiscussed removal of historical Methodist affiliation from infobox

Can the unregistered editor who insists on removing the (well-sourced) historical Methodist affiliation from the infobox please explain their edits? Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 04:51, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Center of Computing and Data Science Classification

Should the CDS be added to the section about the schools and colleges? The official classification of it is an academic unit and not actually a school/college Ksirz (talk) 02:35, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

The CDS is a building that houses the Department of Mathematics & Statistics, Department of Computer Science, the Rafik B. Hariri Institute for Computing and Computational Science & Engineering, and the Faculty of Computing & Data Sciences. What you mean to refer to is the Faculty of Computing & Data Sciences. I don't think it should be added as a school/college as it only offers a Data Science major. Swordfish31 (talk) 05:49, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Arvind and Chandan Nandlal Kilachand Honors College should be removed from list of schools/colleges

The Kilachand Honors College is not a degree-granting college nor is it a major program. Graduates of the Kilachand Honors College receive their degrees from one of the established colleges. Rather, it is a special program wherein students get specialized supervising, a separate residence hall, and complete a keystone project. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swordfish31 (talk • contribs) 05:54, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

But it's still a college - it's right there in the name. ElKevbo (talk) 11:38, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

I agree as well. Under BU's academics section for "Schools & Colleges," that college is listed. Pacamah (talk) 13:43, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

References

Historic affiliation with United Methodist Church shouldn't be mentioned in beginning sentences

The historic affiliation with the United Methodist Church is already explained in the body paragraphs of the article. It is unnecessary to repeat this in the beginning. Rather, the beginning should provide details about the founding of the university, as can be seen with the introductions of peer institutions on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swordfish31 (talk • contribs) 05:59, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

I disagree; it's only a few words and it seems especially important to tell readers that although the institution has historic ties to a particular religious denomination it is non-secular. ElKevbo (talk) 11:46, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

I totally disagree. Boston University is a secular institution. There is only one school in Boston University, the School of Theology, that "retains its historic affiliation with the United Methodist Church", which can be read further in the article. It is not important at all to tell the readers what church that 1 out of the 17 schools/colleges of Boston University is historically affiliated with in the beginning of the article. Even then, it is a weak affiliation - as can be see from the STH website, both non-Methodist Christians and non-Christians, including Muslims and the Irreligious are able to attend the School of Theology. See Princeton University, which was founded by New Light Presbytarians to train ministers dedicated to their views, and historically affiliated with the Presbyterian Church, with the Princeton Theological Seminary being the first school of Princeton University, still affiliated with the Presbyterian Church. This affiliation with the Presbyterian Church is not mentioned in the beginning sentences of the article as this is not what readers want to know from the first glance of reading about the University, rather, the simple background of the University is what the readers want to know in the beginning, its fine if you mention the church affiliation later, which it already is. Swordfish31 (talk) 23:19, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

I too agree with User:ElKevbo. The affiliation is not with the seminary only, but with the entire university, as the references demonstrate. It is important to leave the references in the article per WP:RS. IAMSCU lists Boston University as a member institution, as does the website of the United Methodist Church. If User:User:Swordfish31 still disagrees, he/she should respect the WP:STATUSQUO until consensus is reached. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 23:50, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

The University is either secular, or it is a Methodist university. Boston University is listed as a member institute because of its School of Theology. The University as a whole is secular. Swordfish31 (talk) 23:55, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

You are edit warring against consensus and will soon be in violation of WP:3RR if you continue reverting. As of now, you do not have the agreement of other editors to change long-standing information on this article. Anupam^Talk 23:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

It would be helpful if you provided reliable sources supporting your assertions. ElKevbo (talk) 00:35, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments User:ElKevbo. I should add, with respect to User:Swordfish31's claim, it is impossible for a university to be "secular" and host a religious seminary and chapel at the same time. The sources state that it is nonsectarian and that there is an affiliation with the United Methodist Church—this is an accurate descriptor of the university, which has been present in this article throughout its history. Anupam^Talk 03:07, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Anupam, respectfully, nonsectarian and secular are interchangeable. Swordfish31 (talk) 22:32, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

That is not "impossible" by any means. See Northwestern University, they host the Garrett–Evangelical Theological Seminary, a Methodist seminary. Nobody claims that Northwestern is not a secular school. BU is definitely secular, based on your profile, you seem to have somewhat of an affiliation with the religion being discussed - it is important to remain impartial. Swordfish31 (talk) 22:38, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

"Religious affiliation" should be removed from infobox and rather mentioned in body paragraph

Given that BU is nonsectarian, this mention of a non-existent religious affiliation in the info box is inappropriate. See Northwestern University, where the historic affiliation to the United Methodist Church was removed from the infobox.Swordfish31 (talk) 02:21, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

The religious affiliation will remain in the infobox. Boston University has a United Methodist-related university as mentioned in the sources in the above section, such as the IAMSCU website. Please familiarize yourself with WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Thanks, Anupam^Talk 03:54, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

You provided a source from 2014, please provide an updated source. And what do you mean by Boston University has a United Methodist-related university? Boston University itself is a university. It's been established that BU is a nonsectarian institution, so why is there a section for "religious affiliation"? Thanks, Swordfish31 (talk) 03:52, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

The current IAMSCU website still includes BU as a "World Methodist School". ElKevbo (talk) 04:15, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Change of "Notable Alumni" section?

Other pages seem to have essentially a giant slew of pictures under the notable alumni section. Would this be something favorable here? I am honestly a bit more in the camp of including this, as it seems to be a bit more impactful to have pictures rather than just links. Pacamah (talk) 06:10, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

School Colors

The current infobox has BU Red and White, but the source it links to says it is BU Red and black for its official colors? I feel like red and white are obviously the most prominent colors, but the official site says red and black, so I'm not sure what to do. I guess we can either change it to red and black, or add black to the mix. Pacamah (talk) 00:12, 21 July 2023 (UTC)