Talk:Damn the Torpedoes (album)

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Phil Jones

Per the Playback liner notes, Phil Jones does not play on the material for this album or its B-sides. I wrote to Mr. Jones, who confirmed that he does not play on this album.

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Requested move 21 October 2024

It has been proposed in this section that Damn the Torpedoes (album) be renamed and moved to Damn the Torpedoes.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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Damn the Torpedoes (album) → Damn the Torpedoes – WP:DIFFCAPS distinguished from damn the torpedoes, and none of the other title case entries on that page have their own articles. Add {{other uses}} to this article. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 10:04, 21 October 2024 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 18:37, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose – one DIFFCAP is a poor way to distinguish from all the other ambiguous uses of this term. The current disambiguation is better. Dicklyon (talk) 04:06, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per nom with the additional move of Damn the torpedoes to Damn the Torpedoes (disambiguation), it should be a primary redirect to the section in question. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 15:05, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also support this additional move. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 20:07, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Both Damn the torpedoes and Damn the Torpedoes should redirect to Battle of Mobile Bay#"Damn the torpedoes", the primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 16:44, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The quote is not a proper name. Note to closing admin: DIFFCAPS is Wikipedia policy, and cannot be overridden simply because one doesn't like it. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:28, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:DIFFCAPS states that "small details are often sufficient to distinguish topics". Emphasis mine. It does not say that anything and everything should get primary topic status because of a capital letter. 162 etc. (talk) 20:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, there are extenuating circumstances where it is not possible to distinguish just from small details. However this is a fairly typical application of the policy with nothing weird about it. "Damn the torpedoes" is simply never said using the capitals unless it's the title for something. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 21:06, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Probably like Friendly Fire it would be best to have no primary topic. I'd note that Google does return the article for the album first despite not being case sensitive. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:13, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:DIFFCAPS, but I agree that the lowercase should be a primary redirect to Battle of Mobile Bay and the dab page currently there moved to Damn the Torpedoes (disambiguation) (and not Damn the torpedoes (disambiguation) since all other uses there are capitalized. But what to do with the lowercase isn't explicitly part of this RM discussion. Mdewman6 (talk) 23:50, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, the disamb page does its job here. DIFFCAPS not enough to make the album primary over the famous exclamation. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:57, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. DIFFCAPS is insufficient in this case and in many others. In this case, it's specifically because of the [bad] habit of various people (including many of our readers) to render partial quotations in title case. Right now we have an ongoing RM of a closely similar nature, at what is presently Talk:Hawk Tuah, with various editors arguing [poorly] to capitalize a quoted partial utterance simply because it's "memorable" or "significant" or "conventionalized" or "famous" (i.e., they are trying desperately to ignore MOS:SIGCAPS). We cannot at all trust that all or most of our billions of readers have it in their minds that "Damn the Torpedoes" is necessarily the title of a work and that "Damn the torpedoes" is necessarily part of a[n alleged] quotation famously associated with a battle. I do support having both short versions ending up at the same disambiguation page one way or another, though don't care much about the capitalization or parenthetical being used in the real title of that page as long as all the variants end up there. I don't think that either or both short versions ("Damn the torpedoes" and "Damn the Torpedoes", with no parenthetial) should go directly to the section at the battle article, but I could live with both of them doing that, as second choice. What would not be okay is confusingly having Damn the torpedoes and Damn the Torpedoes going to different pages; we cannot rely on readers having a different thing in mind for each of them. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 18:08, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can we just rescind DIFFCAPS? It has always struck me as a bad idea. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 15:23, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Related discussion from last year here. 162 etc. (talk) 05:43, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A difference of disambiguation sometimes seems justifiable, as with Friendly Fire, Bird Box, and Red Meat, but a difference of one or two capitalized letters between title case and sentence case hardly ever really seems (to me) to provide sufficient clarity between two different primary topics. I would personally support moving Iron Maiden, Duck Sauce, and Extremely Large Telescope to Iron Maiden (band), Duck Sauce (duo), and Extremely Large Telescope (European Southern Observatory). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 06:52, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]