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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was delete. Mackensen (talk) 01:21, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

List of English words of Latin origin

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A magnet for people to create dictdefs. Move to wiktionary. RickK 07:12, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)

  • Keep Significant aspect of the English language. Worthwhile project with many links to good Wikipedia articles. I don't use Wikidictionary: I don't entirely see the point of Wikidictionary. But I want the English language to be covered in Wikipedia. Wincoote
  • "Because Latin words make up some 60% of the language, this is necessarily a deeply incomplete list ... a full list of which would be tens of thousands of words long." Ouch. But there are dozens of articles named 'list of English words of foo origin' so I can't see a fault with this one. Keep. Oh and btw, the point of Wiktionary is explained here. Radiant! 10:24, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. What kind of precedent would that be? Delete move to wiktionary slowly. See my comments to Uncle G and DPsmith below. -Lethe | Talk 10:43, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
  • Strong Delete. Given that no one is likely to go through a dictionary listing the tens of thousands of words that would be needed to make this list comprehensive, it ought to be deleted under the "no potential to become encyclopedic" criterion. These lists are a joke and it's good to see someone taking the bull by the horns and listing them for deletion. If Wiktionary want to do something like this good luck to them, but this will never become a decent Wikipedia article. We have List of Latin phrases for phrases like "inter alia" lifted straight out of Latin and used in English. That I can cope with, but not a comically half-hearted attempt at a list of all words of Latin origin in English. Trilobite (Talk) 14:46, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • "I don't use Wiktionary, therefore all Wiktionary articles belong in Wikipedia." is not an argument that I find compelling. This sort of etymology is exactly what Wiktionary is for. I note from the edit history comments that on the day of its creation an editor of the article xemself found the article somewhat dubious. It should have been made a pointer to Wiktionary there and then. Wikipedia is not a list of words. Wiktionary. Uncle G 16:22, 2005 Feb 16 (UTC)
    • Comment: I could imagine some distant future where wiktionary is very complete, even including etymology for every word, and lists of this form could be automatically generated by the wiki software. Not just for Latin words in English, but for any kind of words in any language. I think that would be really cool, plus it really illustrates to me how this sort of thing properly belongs to the dictionary, not the encyclopedia. I suppose I'm going to change my vote. The only problem is, there are at least dozens of articles of this kind here on wikipedia, and moving them all to wiktionary would be an enormous effort. Even moving the hundreds of words in this Latin list will take a long time, I expect. I was actually the creator of the corresponding article list of English words of Greek origin, which has just as little right to exist as the article under discussion. Lethe | Talk 19:24, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. There are way too many. This would certainly include thousands and likely tens of thousands of words. Even the "A" section is barely a beginning. And when you're done, what have you got? You want this indexed the other way around, the way an ordinary dictionary does, in the etymology section for each word. This list is not even fun to contribute to or intriguing to contemplate. A list of words in English of Quechuan origin, that might be interesting. Dpbsmith (talk) 18:42, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • The English word jerky came from Quechua. Anthony Appleyard 20:40, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • Wikipedia is not paper, size is no restriction. For some people, Latin words in English are far more interesting that Quechua words in English, the former showing a lot of the interesting history and development of the English language (Roman, French, Norse, Norman), the latter just being isolated borrowings. However, I think Uncle G's comment above is compelling. Etymological listings belong in the dictionary. The point is, if this article shouldn't be here, then neither should the corresponding Arabic article, or the hypothetical Quechua article. I wonder if it would be possible to vote on a policy for the whole concept, instead of singling out this article. Is that possible? -Lethe | Talk 19:35, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
      • I disagree with your assertion. Quechuan-derived words in English are notable by virtue of their rarity. (I have no idea whether there are any). So, such a list would not be on a par with this one. And I don't think we need policy until the submission of lists like this becomes a frequent phenomenon. I don't see any problem whatsoever with voting on things like this on a case-by-case basis. But by all means add "lists of English words that are all derived from a particular language" to Wikipedia:What's in, what's out and say they're out. I won't challenge it myself. But I don't care to predict how I might actually vote if someone were actually to submit a list of Quechuan-derived English words. I prefer to cross that gh!nichiko'pt when I come to it. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:18, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
        • Which assertion is it that you disagree with? That some people would find etymology of Latin words more interesting than etymology of Quechua borrowings? This assertion is demonstrably true: for example, Lethe finds the etymologies of Latin words in English more interesting than the etymologies of Quechua words in English. Imagine someone who traces how words change meaning as they went from Greek to Latin to Old French to Anglo-Norman to Middle English to Modern English. See for example, the etymology of the word nice. You don't think that some people would find that more interesting than Quechua words? For example, the word llama entered Spanish from Quechua, and English through Spanish. It is the name of an animal indigenous to the Quechua areas. That simply isn't all that interesting. There might be a half-dozen other examples, and they'll all be equally uninteresting. You are, of course, correct. Rarity makes them more notable, but rarity is not the sole criterion of notability. History is another. -Lethe | Talk 21:43, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
    • A list of words in English of Quechuan origin, that might be interesting. Then check List of English words of Quechuan origin. Never underestimate the Wikipedians. JoaoRicardo 08:26, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Extreme Delete, what a ghastly notion. In practice, English is etymologically way over 50% Latin. No list could ever even approach being complete. Further, etymology is a tricky business. Words that "seem" Latin but aren't would inevitably wind up here. I don't think the other lists are encyclopedic either, but a Latin one would be even more vexsome because it can be used to construct words in English. Think of it... entries for fuckophobia and bartmania abounding. Nip it instead. Wyss 20:02, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • To say nothing of numerically based words like some others we're dealing with now in VfD (naming no names). A centabottle of beer on the wall, a centabottle of beer, ... Dpbsmith (talk) 20:24, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete simply too large a subject to have a list on. Would be sort of like having a List Of People Mentioned In Newspapers or List Of Words With 'E' In Them Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 20:48, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete The very root of the english language is latin. Forget dicdefs, with very little fanagling, this could become a dictionary in and of itself. --InShaneee 22:42, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I wouldn't agree it's the very root- most of the common verbs and nouns are still Anglo-Saxon with lots of Norse, but descriptive English is replete with Latin, a source of both boons and banes for this rich (a Latin word) and flexible (another Latin one) language (still another). Wyss 00:08, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Way too many words. This isn't a topic for an article, it's an entire project. Carrp | Talk 23:50, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Not encyclopedic. Not just a dictdef, an entire dictionary. — Gwalla | Talk 00:04, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • The word "delete" is of Latin origin. I agree with Dpbsmith. —Charles P. (Mirv) 04:07, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, especially if all the words are going to be linked like that (the fact that so many are blue when I fail to see how many can be more than dicdefs worries me, but I haven't actually checked them out yet). I won't take any stand on similar articles for other languages, but I do agree that the rarity of a List of English words of Farsi origin would make it more encyclopedic. If we have this list we might as well have a List of English words of Middle English origin and include most of he words in the dictionary.-R. fiend 08:06, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, this would be an unmanageably large list, but do we have an article on the different routes by which Latin words have entered English? -- Jmabel | Talk 08:11, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete this one and every other article on the Lists of English words of international origin. Wikipedia is neither a dictionary nor a list of words. JoaoRicardo 08:26, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Perhaps replace with a list of Latin words that have been in English since the Old English period, if somebody wants a list. The later Latinisms aren't very interesting, and any good dictionary will provide information. In general, the "list of English words of ...etc." articles are interesting and useful, but this one isn't. Also, after it's deleted, somebody should start articles describing in more detail the routes by which different Latin words entered English (very early borrowings; or via french; or latinisms) over the centuries. A thing people should remember is that most of these Latinisms are international, and you'll find many of them even in Russian if you look. Decius 08:31, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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